E95: Belonging & Healing [Part 6] – Healing, the Antidote to Trauma

kayanna:

(singing)

Dr. Dave:

Hello, and welcome to the KnolShare with Dr. Dave Podcast. This is Dr. Dave Cornelius, your host. We are continuing our great conversation of belonging and healing with my guest Tracy Treacy from DNS Healing Center.

Tracy:

Yay!

Dr. Dave:

Our topic today is healing, the antidote to trauma. Trauma is a source of pain that can be described and we can give it the name. So our conversation is going to really dig into forgiveness, somatic healing, psychotherapy, professional coaching, and spiritual healing. So Tray, Tray, Tray, how are you, man? What's going on?

Tracy:

You know, life is good.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Tracy:

... good friend. Of course, it is. How are you doing?

Dr. Dave:

I'm amazing. I'm amazing and I'm jealous because I'm thinking about you hanging out at Coachella which is a fun place to be.

Tracy:

Really. That's what we're doing?

Dr. Dave:

Well, that's not what we're doing, but I'm just telling your business so we can talk about it.

Tracy:

Exactly. That's wrong

Dr. Dave:

Belonging and healing.

Tracy:

Yes. Coachella was a good time.

Dr. Dave:

Awesome.

Tracy:

I mean, I would actually go back.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, yeah.

Tracy:

Yeah.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Tracy:

Yeah. It was a lot of people though, man, and it [crosstalk 00:01:42]

Dr. Dave:

Yes, it is.

Tracy:

... COVID. It was a lot of people.

Dr. Dave:

But you were more glamping than anything else, right?

Tracy:

How do you... What? No. I was not glamping.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, you were. I didn't see you. You weren't sleeping in the tent or in your car.

Tracy:

No, no. That's more than glamping. I mean, they have Yurts. Yurts. What are those things called? Yurts?

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. Something like that. Yeah, like...

Tracy:

Yeah. The thing, that tent, the-

Dr. Dave:

The teepee thing?

Tracy:

The teepee tent, or the tent with the big opening at the top is... I'm not going to call it a teepee. But it is a tent with a hard side. You know?

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Tracy:

And you could get one for the whole weekend. There's levels and it started at about $4,500 and it went up to $7,500.

Dr. Dave:

Yep.

Tracy:

Wow. This is a real thing.

Dr. Dave:

Well, yes, it is a real thing. So did you have a sense of belonging as you were there?

Tracy:

I actually, yeah, because you feel even in that big crowd of people, you're all there for the same thing. So you belong to the place where people go to appreciate music. You go to really enjoy artists, to do their thing. You see the performers in their, all their glory, like this is what I was born to do. So you feel like you belong to this exclusive little club of over a 100,000 people and you have access to. Everybody's so very nice to each other. Because we, being a little bit older, there were some of us, but there's a VIP section and then there's a general. So we were VIP and the general population folks, we were amongst them.

Dr. Dave:

Nice.

Tracy:

So it was really, yeah, it was just kind of cool. All the young folks acknowledging us, being like, "Look at you. You dope. You here! Yay!" So it definitely felt like I belonged.

Dr. Dave:

Okay. Well, that's what I wanted to just check in on. I just wanted to check in on that.

Dr. Dave:

So we want to jump into the very first part of our conversation, the healing power of forgiveness. So I think of forgiveness as a powerful state of spiritual, mental, physical presence that allows every person to move beyond the trauma that they've experienced. We know that forgiveness is not easy because... and oftentimes we want to just hang out in that comfortable space because trauma is something that we know and it feels good here.

Dr. Dave:

So I was also looking at a quote, and some people attribute this to Buddha, that they talk about, "the lack of forgiveness," well, I'm paraphrasing, "can be something like having a state of mind of holding a grudge against someone which is like drinking poison and then hoping the other person dies." That's kind of a Buddha thing that I hung onto. So let's talk about the healing power of forgiveness and start there before we get into some of the other practices.

Tracy:

Yeah. It's a interesting one, Dave, because immediately, as you said, the pain of the trauma. You, sometime on some level, want more harm to that person than to forgive, if it's a person. In order to forgive the person or the situation or whatever for what has happened that has affected you, is a difficult route for people. Because I mean, you think, "Why should I forgive them when they hurt me?" It's a real, it's a process.

Tracy:

What I like to do, and I don't know how popular this is or how popular it will be, is begin with helping the person forgive themselves. Not for blaming themselves for it happening to them because that happens a lot too in the mind. It's, "Well, if I hadn't gone or if I wasn't there or if, or if, or I was just a little kid, I was defenseless, but maybe there was something wrong with me," that kind of thing. It's hard. It's really difficult. So to really focus on forgiving self and then others, I think is really important to do. There are steps to forgiveness. That's a whole nother podcast, but-

Dr. Dave:

Is it?

Tracy:

Yeah.

Dr. Dave:

I thought it was this podcast.

Tracy:

I mean, we're talking about a whole lot of stuff right now, right? The-

Dr. Dave:

I know. I got to talk about a whole lot of stuff.

Tracy:

So the steps of forgiveness is there are stages just the grieving process,

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Tracy:

... those kind of things. So, I mean, it may come up. But I'm talking in circles because it's just a very convoluted thing to do. Ultimately, we know that forgiveness is a release. It's a release from the body of however the trauma has affected you. And that is the goal because the stuff is stored on a cellular level and forgiveness helps to release that. And-

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. Well, without a doubt. Right-

Tracy:

Yeah. People go-

Dr. Dave:

Go ahead.

Tracy:

-"I can forgive, but I can't forget." And that's real because it's not about forgetting. It's about when I think about whatever happened, my nervous system doesn't respond at a level that it was before. So when I think about something and I'm at a 10, as I do the process of forgiveness and healing, when I think about it and it's at about a 1 or a 2, then I know that there is healing and forgiveness in that. But that doesn't mean you forget it.

Dr. Dave:

Without a doubt. It stays with you for the rest of your life in most cases. But thinking about the courage and empathy that's required to step into bringing forgiveness as a gift because I look at it in that context that when you are able to forgive someone for the traumas that they have brought into your life, it's a gift to not only yourself but also to that other person. It requires that you have the courage to give it a name, to really step in and have that conversation, and then empathy to look at the context of the perpetrator of trauma in your life, the context of the empathy: What was going on with that person? What's up with them? Why did they do this? And beginning to try to understand what that really means. So-

Dr. Dave:

-another context of it.

Tracy:

Yeah, and I don't want our listeners to think that they have to confront someone to forgive them, that they have to extend the words, "I forgive you," to someone who has traumatized them. That's not always necessary-

Dr. Dave:

Agreed.

Tracy:

-because the end result is who are you really doing it for is not that person. It's for you. If we look at it spiritually, the karmic laws and all of that talking about Buddha, then, yeah, there is a what I put out, I get back kind of thing. But that doesn't mean you haven't forgiven someone if they're not in your presence, because sometimes,

Tracy:

... Dave, that can retraumatize you to actually have to speak to the person. And what if the person has transitioned? So it's not always necessary to have dialogue with someone in order to forgive them. What you talked about, there's a compassion piece, and that is with yourself, the compassion and grace to have with yourself as you are going through that process, because some people get in their hair, like, "I should be further than this. I don't know why this still affects me." All of that. Have grace with yourself so that you can go through that process and not judge yourself because of where you're at when you're healing, while you're healing.

Dr. Dave:

Right. Yeah.

Dr. Dave:

Because healing is a journey. I call it a transformative journey, where we're trying to get to a place of a favorable outcome for oneself. This is just me going out and looking at how do we think about the pain in the trauma, and I try to think of it in two ways. I think of it in generative and limiting pain. Where we think that generative healing entails we're going through this pain, we're trying to find some healing in the process. That generative healing in itself gives us this opportunity for favorable outcome that we're seeking. The same thing with we're dealing with pain and looking at some level of healing that we could get to a place where we are in a place, I'm sorry, where it's too pervasive and it's too hard. So we're dealing with generative and limiting type of healing as we're walking through this trauma.

Dr. Dave:

What say you in terms of your experience with providing as a healer? You provide this space for generative healing and also the space for dealing with limiting healing because that is a reality where, "Oh, my God, this is too much. I can't deal with this. I have to put this in this box over here." And to me, I look at that as the limiting healing experience. But the generative would give us a way to like, "Okay, I could deal with this. Maybe incrementally." So let's talk about that.

Tracy:

Those two work together. I don't think they have to be separate of each other because that's about the grace piece. If today I wake up and I can't deal with this shit, then you honor yourself and you don't deal with this shit. If tomorrow I wake up and I'm like, "Well, maybe I can just chip at it a little bit." Then you do it on the day you can chip at it a little bit. So I think they work. They're not separate because you do both within the process of healing. Give yourself the space and the support to do that and begin to understand what you need in order to support yourself while you're going through those moments.

Tracy:

So if it's the moment, the day where I can't deal with this shit, then what do I need today to support me so that I'm what I would call, to myself if I'm saying this, productive or getting some stuff done, but not letting that interfere with my world. Maybe it is getting, I don't know, whatever you do, it could be... I like people walking around barefoot to ground themselves, and sometimes that irritates the hell out of people. But what that does is it helps you to connect, and when you're there with earth that helps to support. Maybe rocking, maybe dancing, maybe humming, maybe singing, maybe reading, maybe curling up in a fetal position for 20 minutes just to give yourself a hug. Do what you need to do and then continue your day.

Tracy:

What happens sometimes is people get into that freeze place when they say, "I don't want to deal with this today, or I can't. It's too heavy." Then they shut down and they don't do anything. And sometimes that's okay. I'm not saying we have to be machines. This world says, "If you're not doing anything, then you're lazy." Or, "The idle mind is a devil's playground," you know, all of that kind of stuff that we hear, those messages. Put those in a compartment; put those on the shelf and be like, "Well, today I need a little bit more support. I'm going to do that for myself. And then I'm going to continue my day. Then on those days where I feel like I can deal with this, today I might chip away at it a little bit and still support myself." So you're always going to need to support yourself and figure out what that means for you.

Tracy:

I think that's actually as difficult as the healing because when we're traumatized, we don't know how to support ourselves, because during the traumas, all we know how to do is survive in order to get out of it or in order to be okay. That, finding those things that help to soothe my nervous system, can be as much of a struggle as healing some of the trauma.

Dr. Dave:

So that's the perfect transition period to something that's one of your favorite topics, like somatic healing. So we think of somatic therapy where it operates off the idea that what happens to you in life is stored not only in your mind, but also in your body. So as you were talking about walking around barefooted or curling up in a fetal position, I was thinking about somatic healing and I know that's something that's one of your favorite topics.

Tracy:

Yeah. Because as I said earlier, it's how I think trauma;s stored in the body, on a cellular level. If we feel it, and sometimes we are not connected with the body enough to feel where it is in the body that it's happening. So what trauma can be really good at is helping us to dissociate, so we disconnect from the body and when we can and get fully embodied and begin to feel what the body's telling us, then, not only then, but those are the moments where we have an opportunity to heal.

Tracy:

Like, in session, I will have a person sit and really just, it's almost as if I asked them to turn their eyeballs in so that they're scanning their body to see what's going on. Then if there's areas that they feel movement or whatever, I can help them focus on that area to see what kind of communication that area wants to share with them. This can be in forms of breath work. This can be in forms of meditation. This can be in forms of embodiment. There are ways to do it, to help the person begin to verbalize what's happening.

Tracy:

Some of the time can be taken away or can be used because people don't understand how to sit in their bodies, because during trauma times they've learned how to dissociate. So maybe there is not a lot of trust in the body or maybe there's blame: "My body has caused me pain, or because of my body, this has happened," and all of that. So there's a dissociation.

Tracy:

To help them to feel safe enough to be in their body so that they can listen to their body is a process. So we're talking about building trust with me and then building trust with the body and then allowing parts of the body to speak to them and then seeing how that connects. So it's a process, a process, a process, and some of the ways to support that process is through somatic work.

Tracy:

Somatic work can span a lot of different things. We talk about energy work; we talk about healing touch, reiki. Those are some forms of somatic healing. Dancing is a form of somatic healing, getting in the body. Yoga is a form of somatic healing, being in the body. That reminds me, I got to get something to somebody. I build... I know. I'm like, "Shoot, I forgot to send that email."

Tracy:

I kind of put together a yoga flow for the different chakras of the body because usually when we need to get in the body, we're focusing on the lower half, so from the solar plexus to the lower half of the spine, solar plexus to the base of the spine, because I think I've talked about the chakras. There's seven chakras in the body and we focus on the lower three to really get into the bottom because foundational work, root work, old family work, all of that, creativity is in those lower, how I feel about who I am. I built a series of yoga positions, asanas, to do in sequence in order to help support those

Tracy:

Areas, so that we can get into the body to heal. My gosh, Dave, there's so many different kinds of embodiment work that can help with the somatic healing that I think is worth researching with people. Some people don't need or want to go there in order to heal, because they can do their process a different way. And that's okay. I don't want people to think that "oh, I got to do somatic work in order to heal." It's available for whoever can benefit them and not everybody does.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Tracy:

Massage is another way, right? So it's about releasing the body of... It's like releasing the body of toxins after you have a wonderful night of drinking or not so wonderful night of drinking.

Dr. Dave:

We don't do that.

Tracy:

We don't do that. No. And you wake up the next day and you've got your lemon water to help detox. You're drinking tons of fluids that is releasing, getting rid of toxin. You're sweating the stuff out. That's how I look at rum. You got to sweat it out somehow.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. Got to get it out.

Tracy:

Sometimes. Yeah. Especially if there's some disease in the body that it's like "let's start to work some of this stuff out of the body", if we're holding it.

Dr. Dave:

I was thinking about something that Jamie Foxx said, but I'm not going to say it in this podcast, you got to blow that shit out, right?

Tracy:

I mean, you do. Interesting that you said it because sometimes when people are doing their process, they may have diarrhea, they have explosive gas, they may be throwing up. That is also a way of getting some of this stuff out.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. He was talking about [inaudible 00:21:53]. I figured I'll get you to spit the water out as we were talking. But psychotherapy healing also is another form of healing. Which we call talk therapy, right?

Tracy:

Yeah.

Dr. Dave:

It's working with a trained therapist, deep conversations with inquiry, how is that also helpful as a healing tool?

Tracy:

Someone being... That's so interesting. It was similar last night. I can't even remember, but someone was talking about their partner being in an emergency room, doctor in their residency and asked me what I did for work, and I shared that I was a psychotherapist and they're like, so you got to with what ED doctors deal with. You don't know what you're going to get on any given day, how do you deal with that? Because that takes a lot of mental work. And I said to him, "My job, I don't even think of it as my job, my role in what I do and how I support people is to hold space."

Dr. Dave:

Yes.

Tracy:

And when you have someone that is, you feel it. And I do this virtually and I hope my clients can feel it that I am there for them a 100% in that moment. And when you have an audience that is holding space for you, where you feel safe, that helps healing. It really helps for you to be able to share what you're feeling and not be judged and ridiculed, and to be given witness to, and honor that what you're saying is simply it is, and it's important and I don't question it. And when that's provided for a person, that's like "oh, wow." So yeah, that's very helpful.

Dr. Dave:

It is.

Tracy:

It depends on the psychotherapy. Also there's different kinds, but you're going to ask something because I can keep going with it.

Dr. Dave:

I just wanted to make sure that we cover it as a topic and an available form of healing because also, we have professional coaching, right? Which emphasizes getting the individual or group to their desired destination. We're thinking that... You know, the culture itself believes that each person is whole and capable of finding a desired solution through exploration and discovery while working with a coach. I know that something that you're exploring, that's the work that I do. So I would just like to dig in a little bit more into that as a source of healing as well.

Tracy:

Yeah. I think coaching is a... It feels to me as if with therapy, I'm holding space, with coaching I'm digging. I'm also digging with therapy, but I'm digging to connect. With coaching, a person has a goal and you say, "If this is the goal, let's do the goal backwards and see what you need to do to get to the goal." There're different ways of doing that and to hear their goal and to support them in that causes healing.

Dr. Dave:

Yes.

Tracy:

That helps them to be accountable, that helps them to have... It's almost like you're partnering with them to do what they need to do.

Dr. Dave:

It is partnership.

Tracy:

Right. So you've got that partner, you've got that person. It's not handholding, it's support. It is "I'm going to help you get to where you are going to get to and if there's glitches in it and you find yourself falling short, that might be a therapy issue and not a coaching issue." So it's being able to tell those things apart too.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. And it's important because... You know that I was coaching someone, I said, "Oh my God, I got to a point where I know that this was beyond my capability." So I'm like, "Hey Tracy, would this person be a good referral for you?" So that's also part of the responsibility of coaching. Because besides holding space, it's thought partnership of helping those individuals to move forward in their journey to wherever they want to get to.

Tracy:

Yeah. I was coaching with someone and there were some issues going on that could have used a therapist. But that was in my role in that moment. So in that moment, because of all of the crisis that was going on, it was like, "Okay, so let's look at what you do well, right? And let's help you apply that to what you want to do." So it's about transferable skills and how those will help you, so to get that person out of the mindset of the crisis, so that they can begin to see that yeah, they've done some really good things in their lives. It's not all of this trauma that has got them to where they are. It's all the good stuff and how they've supported themselves, that can help them in their career.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. It's getting beyond those limiting beliefs. "I can't do, I am not good enough." It's really looking at helping them to shine and lighten those great skills that they already have within themselves. To help them to move forward to their destination. What about spiritual healing? So, we think about spiritual healing, we're talking about meditation, prayer, you kind of talked about touching with healing intent. Some people may have a communication with a higher being or a spiritual realm to facilitate healing within the individual or in groups. So I know you bring some aspects as a healer of spirituality to your practice as well to your clients.

Tracy:

Yeah. You mentioned meditation and that can be a spiritual approach to healing. Right?

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Tracy:

When I heal or as I do my work, I work with spirit. I work with, I call God spirit, big guy, big gal, you know, the presence of the Light, right? That has brought into however, I do what I do. All the time, every day. So I do my best to connect. And when I'm working with someone and they feel that, "You know, I should pray more or I should meditate, or I've got no spiritual practice" etc., this is where we can also say, "Well, what are the things that you have done?" And then help them to recognize that some of those things are spiritual practice.

Tracy:

That they may be doing it already. And they don't realize that connection and taking care of yourself can be a spiritual connection, because that is showing appreciation for who you are and that you can show up for you. And then maybe connecting that to a source if people believe in that. And if I connect that to source, then that can help me get through some of those limiting times where I feel like I can't do this shit. Let me connect the source and get grounded in source so that I can have the energy I need to move forward. Sometimes if you don't

Tracy:

A habit for yourself, connecting to source can help you do it.

Dr. Dave:

That's for sure. So, we kind of walk through different options for healing, from forgiveness, to somatic, to psychotherapy, to professional coaching, and spiritual healing. I'm going to try and be funny here. Was Coachella a form of healing?

Tracy:

You are really on one today. Actually, yes it was, thank you very much, because it healed some of the COVID trauma, to actually see people out and about having a good time. Yes.

Dr. Dave:

Okay.

Tracy:

See, I can make it work.

Dr. Dave:

I knew you could, so that's what I put it in there. Now, is there anything else you would want to add in as another source of healing, besides the ones that we covered today?

Tracy:

Since this is about belonging, even though family can be really jacked up, family can be a really good source of healing. Right?

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Tracy:

Like the people that you connect with can be a really great source of healing. And that doesn't mean you have to use them as your therapist, or your coach, or your source. That means I can show up authentically in my stuff, and not be judged by these people who love me. They will allow the grace, and the space, and the patience, and the compassion, and the love, to support me through this, so that I can feel okay doing it. I don't have to do this. I don't have to be ashamed. I don't have to be embarrassed. I don't have to hide. I can show up, and these people will still love me for me.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. I am so glad you brought that up, because just sharing a story with my relationship with my son, that him showing up, and moving here with us is a form of belonging and healing for him, because he just said that last night, we were out having dinner, and he expressed that, because he said he's the prodigal son. I said, "Yeah, but I'm the prodigal dad." So that we are able to create space, such that he could find healing and acceptance, as he's going through his journey. No, I'm glad that you brought that up. It kind of touched me, and is right at home for me as a topic, as a dad, and also for our relationship. We rub each other, but we have great love and respect for each other, and for our own family, for our families.

Tracy:

Yeah.

Dr. Dave:

Right?

Tracy:

Yeah, and that feels like we belong. We belong to each other.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, we do.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, so I hope to see you, when I go see your son play in a couple weeks. You know we come out here, and she goes like, "No, I'm going to Southern France."

Tracy:

Oh no, I don't know. I'm going to go to New York and see him play, so I don't know.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, yeah.

Tracy:

Maybe.

Dr. Dave:

Well, we're going to see him play in a couple weeks.

Tracy:

Good, good. We told him. We told him.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. So, I'll be pinging you, I'm like, "Can I get some VIP connects?"

Tracy:

We told him that. I was like, "Dave said he'll get his tickets, but he wants to be treated as a VIP." And Dylan was like, "What does that even mean?"

Dr. Dave:

It means like I get to go backstage and feel like I belong. I get to meet the artists, and feel like I belong.

Tracy:

Oh, all of that. Yeah, you'll get that.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Tracy:

And if you go backstage though, you might become a roadie. So I don't know if I would go backstage.

Dr. Dave:

I don't know about all that. No, I'm not moving your drums. Sorry.

Tracy:

Oh my gosh, yeah. Is it... That's a part of it.

Dr. Dave:

I know.

Tracy:

Wow. I mean, it's exciting, but it's a lot of work.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, it is. Yeah, very much so. A lot of somatic skills needed to move those drums, right?

Tracy:

Yeah. Well, we're talking about him, I guess I can give a shout out to the artist.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Tracy:

How tacky would that be?

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Tracy:

Yeah. Amber Mark is the artist.

Dr. Dave:

Nice.

Tracy:

And she is awesome.

Dr. Dave:

Good.

Tracy:

She's super awesome. Yeah. You ought to check... Have you listened to her music?

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. And I played it for Dave and said... This is my son, Dave. I was like, "Hey, we're, we're going to go and check out this artist for your mother's birthday." And he was super hyped. So...

Tracy:

Awesome.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy:

Yeah.

Dr. Dave:

So it's going to be good.

Tracy:

Yeah. She's a wonderful, wonderful young woman.

Dr. Dave:

Nice. Well, let's let me end our conversation for today and just say thank you for listening to the KnolShare with Dr. Dave podcast. And the conversation that you had was about healing, the antidote to trauma. And we know healing is a difficult journey. No shortcut. Got to do the work. Got to do the work, and put the time and energy into that. So I hope that this learning experience will prompt you to seek more, to discover ways of finding your level of awesomeness.

The KnolShare with Dr. Dave podcast is streamed in Spotify, iTunes, Audible, and Google Play.

The music for this podcast, intro and outro, was created by my niece, Kayana Brow-Hendrickson.

This podcast episode is copywritten 2022 for Dr. Dave Cornelius, and KnolShare.org. I just always wanted just give a big love and shout out to Tracy for bringing her knowledge and experience to this conversation, and sharing this back to our audience and the world. So Trace, thank you.

Tracy:

You are welcome. Thank you for asking me. This was good. Yeah.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. I think we have like... Yeah. I like it. It's lots of fun. Love it.

Tracy:

Lots of fun. It is lots of fun. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Dave. I appreciate it.

Dr. Dave:

Very much so.

Kayanna:

(singing)