E98: Resiliently You Series Part 3: Lisa Jones, fact-based therapist, coach, and passionate trainer

Dr. Dave:

What is the importance of belonging, and why do we all need to belong somewhere? It is built into our human nature. Learn how the powerful philosophy of Ubuntu helps to deliver a simple roadmap to building positive teams and relationships, improving engagement and performance. Get your copy of Belonging and Healing: Creating Awesomeness for Yourself and Others by Dr. Dave Cornelius on Amazon.com.

Hey, welcome to the KnolShare with Dr. Dave podcast. I am Dr. Dave Cornelius, your host. As we continue with the Resiliently You podcast series, my guest today is Lisa Jones. Lisa is a multi-award winning, science-driven, fact-based therapist, coach, and passionate trainer, who believes that prevention is better than intervention. Lisa works in both the corporate and education sector teaching others the importance of brain health, resilience, stress management, and emotional wellbeing, as well as running a business. Private practice. A busy, I would say, private practice. So, Lisa, welcome to the KnolShare with Dr. Dave podcast. So, do us a favor and provide us with an elevator pitch about your journey as a mental health consultant, psychotherapist, coach, and trainer.

Lisa Jones:

Okay. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I'm really, really excited to be here. And I was thinking to try and keep this brief. I'm terrible for going off on tangents. Growing up, I was always interested in people, and I found I was always that person that people came to advice or want them to be the voice for them if they felt they were unable to speak up about things. So I've always had kind of quite a sense of justice, wanting to help people.

Now, my first love was actually performing arts, but unfortunately I became quite unwell in my teens and kind of struggled with various chronic illnesses. So, knowing that I wasn't able to pursue my musical theater dreams, I decided to do my degree in counseling and psychotherapy. So that's kind of where it all started. And over the years I was able to fully recover from my health issues, just before I was 30, so a little while ago. And that kind of happened really after a lot of work, a lot of investing in various therapies really, and really understanding the brain/mind/body connection.

So that was the key moment for me, where I thought, "There's something here and I really want to help other people with this." So kind of got the passion really even more in wanting to help people understand how we can manage stress, how we can build resilience and do all of those things. So, over the years, I trained in various other modalities, including coaching NLP, which is "neuro-linguistic programming" for people who aren't aware, and applied neuroscience.

So my passion is the brain. That's why I talk a lot about brain health. And as time went on, I was working in my private practice and that was getting busier, but I wanted to help more people. So that's why I set up HeadStrong Training as a vehicle to be able to do that. And as you said in the intro, I'm really passionate about teaching prevention over intervention. So, that's my journey really; and now I work with senior leaders in both business and schools and teach those essential life skills, really, so people feel confident to manage those stressors in life.

Dr. Dave:

That's beautiful. And I noticed that in the introduction, we talked about resilience as one of the things that you try to tease out of people or bring out of individuals.

Lisa Jones:

Yes.

Dr. Dave:

So, how would you define resilience?

Lisa Jones:

So, for me... In fact, I've kind of taken this quote, really. There's a lady called Dr. Carol Penton who's done amazing research in resilience, and really it's the capacity to remain flexible in our thoughts, feelings, and behaviors, really so that we're able to emerge stronger and hopefully wiser from difficulty, challenge, and adversity. So it's having that flexibility overall, I think.

Dr. Dave:

Man, that's so succinct. Right to the point, right? So, let's talk about: Why is resilience an important skill to cultivate in a world that is filled with volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity, and which we call VUCA? Why is that so important?

Lisa Jones:

So, that's such a good question. I suppose, from my perspective, without resilience, we're really susceptible to chronic stress and the health implications that come with that, whether that's neurologically mentally, emotionally, physically, or even spiritually. When we don't have the resilience within us, whether we've learned it or not, that can have some really quite negative consequences for the rest of our life. And it's by learning and developing that resilience that we're able to face challenges and come through them. And the reality is that life is hard at times. It's not always easy, and the world can be really tough. It can be brutal. And there are so many things outside of our control that, really, the more resilient we are and the more able we are, the more likely we're going to be able to thrive and to grow and to adapt and to keep on evolving in the best way that we can.

Dr. Dave:

So, I'm just going to shift the spotlight to you and ask: What makes you resilient?

Lisa Jones:

Gosh, what makes me resilient? I think, honestly, it's my overall outlook on life. So whilst I know as an individual person, as a therapist, as a trainer, et cetera, it's not possible to be positive all the time, and I think we need to find that balance between having a positive mindset and a positive outlook, but not falling into what we call "toxic positivity," where it's that, "Oh, well, just think positive," and, "Just be grateful," and, "Always look on the bright side." And that's very helpful, but it's not possible to do that all the time, and we do need to acknowledge the hardship. We need to acknowledge the challenge. We need to acknowledge the feelings that we're having to be able to move through difficult situations. So, I suppose as well I have a core belief that everything will work out and everything will work out as it should.

So, it's thinking that just by the fact that I'm sat here, there isn't anything that I haven't been able to overcome. And has it always been easy? No, it absolutely hasn't. But I have found ways to overcome things by being more resilient. So, for me, I think what makes me resilient is maintaining a hopeful outlook, always. Being grateful, always. No matter how difficult life is, there is always something that I can be thankful for. And being adaptable, logical, and rational, as well as, really importantly, knowing when to ask for help. Knowing when to take a step back, when to take a break. I think they're the things that make me... And I've had to learn that. I'm not saying that's easy. I have learned that throughout my life, but I think that's what makes me resilient.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. And I like the fact that you kind of made a comment about "toxic happiness." I've never heard that before. That's very interesting. What was the term that you used? Toxic-

Lisa Jones:

Toxic positivity.

Dr. Dave:

Toxic positivity.

Lisa Jones:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dr. Dave:

Good. I'll keep that in mind. That's such a good thing. So, when we talk about poor resilience, how does poor resilience limit a person's sense of belonging? Because it's such an important thing in the world that we live in today, where we're all just trying to be heard, be seen, be valued.

Lisa Jones:

Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's tough question. It's a great question. It's a tough one. And I think, as you've just touched on, as humans, we are designed to be socially connected. Next to sleep, social connection is the most important aspect of brain health and wellbeing and resilience. And as you've just said, as humans, we all have a need to be accepted, to be seen, to be heard and valued and to fit in. We all want to be part of a community. So if someone's lacking in resilience, it can be very easy to feel victimized or to fall into the blame culture, effectively isolating ourselves. We can get very insular, which can be really damaging. And I suppose another key component of resilience is having that secure attachment, which is slightly different to the social connection, whether that's one person or whether it's the whole community, but having those secure attachments. And not having that, not having the community, not having social connection actually lowers our resiliency.

Dr. Dave:

That could be understood. So, I know you work with organizations and schools, so think about some tangible benefits gained by organizations. If their employees have a sense of belonging, what is that like?

Lisa Jones:

Mm-hmm. I mean, it makes such a difference in the workplace. People talk about toxic cultures at work, toxic workplaces, et cetera. But when people have that sense of belonging, it has huge benefits; not just for the individual, but for the teams, the wider organization, because when people feel like they are part of something, they are part of that team, they're part of that culture, and they feel valued, it's ultimately only going to have a positive effect because it increases feelings of loyalty, increases employee engagement, as well as productivity, innovation, creativity. All of these amazing things. Because really when people have that sense of belonging, it allows for more trust. When there's trust, more ideas can be shared, more things can be achieved, really.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, most certainly. That has been my experience. So, if you could share an experience that you had when belonging increased a persons' or groups' resiliency... Because, as you said, this is a core need that we have as a human being, and so what have you seen out there?

Lisa Jones:

So, I suppose I can think of a couple... If it's okay to share a couple of examples from private practice and from the organizational work that I do. So, thinking about my private practice, of course, one of the key components of that is that therapeutic relationship, so that's a key factor in helping people build their resilience. And so, just thinking of an example with one particular client I worked with where we built up that relationship. Obviously they're working on themselves, building their resilience, and of course that empowers them to then make different decisions and also to build their sense of self-worth. And when people have that feeling, of course that's going to impact their working environment. It's going to help them feel more confident at work.

And the other example I was thinking of was working in a group of people in a business. I was kind of going in to do the training and run focus groups and things, and there was some real discord amongst the team. And 9 times out of 10, when I see this is it's because of a miscommunication or misunderstanding. People just perhaps aren't on the same page. But by delivering the training and support to them and giving them a space, a safe space to communicate, where they all felt able to have a voice and be heard, they had that ability to be able to share how they were feeling, what that did was create an environment where they were able to resolve any underlying issues. And of course, that then developed their connection amongst them as a team and their trust, meaning that they grew stronger and more resilient as individuals and as a team. And of course, that then has the wider impact across the organization.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. I just picked up on a keyword that you mentioned is almost "psychological safety," which gives us the ability to feel that it's okay for us to share without worrying about someone jumping down our throats or on our necks. Either which way.

Lisa Jones:

Yeah, absolutely. It's such an important aspect, especially when it comes to resilience in the workplace. And I think a lot of organizations now are really understanding that and they're taking psychological safety much more seriously, because I think people are starting to finally realize, "Oh, actually, when that's in place, it creates a much healthier and happier working environment."

Dr. Dave:

Yes, for sure. Right? And not to mention the amount of innovation opportunities that we miss out when someone is quietly sitting in a corner and they take off and go do it on their own, right?

Lisa Jones:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Dave:

Because they did not feel encouraged in a current workspace.

Lisa Jones:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Dr. Dave:

So, what words of encouragement would you like to gift the listeners with today as we bring our conversation to a close?

Lisa Jones:

I think really it's to remind people that they can do hard things. As humans, we can do hard things. We can learn resilience. We can develop resilience. And like I said earlier, the fact that I'm sat here, I know there's nothing I haven't overcome; and that's true for everyone. We can overcome things even though in the midst of it, it might feel impossible, there is a way forward. And it's not always easy, and that's okay. Life isn't meant to always be easy. We wouldn't develop resilience if everything was easy. That's how we learn: through challenge.

And I suppose just to remind people that we're all only human, which means none of us are perfect, none of us have it all together, and all of us need help sometimes and that's absolutely okay. And we're a constant work-in-progress. I think one of my favorite sayings is that all any of us can do is the best we can with the resources we have available at that time. So just to remind people: Maintain that hopeful outlook. If things are difficult, there is a way through it and things do work out.

Dr. Dave:

So, if we had to think about the opposite of toxic happiness. I don't know why the word is evading me, but...

Lisa Jones:

[inaudible 00:14:17].

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. Toxic positivity. What's the flip side of that?

Lisa Jones:

Oh, that's a good question. Do you mean as in what would be the more-

Dr. Dave:

Well, you have toxic positivity. What would be a positive word to replace "toxic" with?

Lisa Jones:

Oh.

Dr. Dave:

I know.

Lisa Jones:

"Realistic." Realistic positivity.

Dr. Dave:

Well, and that's okay, right?

Lisa Jones:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Dave:

It's okay to have that context, realistic positivity, as opposed to toxic positivity.

Lisa Jones:

Yes.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, I'll keep that in mind. So, I know recently, as you live in UK, you could see... As we were looking on television from the United States, we're looking at so many people who were sensing a level of belonging. It was really remarkable to see. Walk us through that journey. Because, to me, that's a unique experience because most of my listeners may live in the United States and elsewhere. But the fact that you were there, having that experience with the passing of your monarchy or queen after 70+ years, I see so many sense of belonging that was happening. Give us some firsthand context about that.

Lisa Jones:

Gosh, it's been a really interesting time; and for many, many reasons. I think for all of us here in the UK, whether they are royalist or not, whether they agree with the monarchy or they don't, however they feel about it, the fact is that the queen, for us, has been that stable, constant presence for pretty much everyone I know, apart from my granny who's a hundred, throughout our entire lifetimes. So she has been there, and she has been a leader. She has served, whether she wanted to or not. She can't help the fact she was born into that role. She has done what she promised that she would do. She has literally dedicated her entire life to her job effectively. And when she passed, I think the nation as a...

And I'm generalizing here because of course this isn't every single person, of course it's not, but really felt that loss because she was no longer there and it's all we've ever known. And of course, naturally, when somebody dies, it brings up our own memories. It brings up our own thoughts and feelings of our own personal experiences. So whether that's losing a parent or a loved one, we can't help but then think about our own experiences, which of course can be really difficult for people. I think the majority of people I've spoken to have all said, myself included to be honest, that we felt far more emotional than we expected to when it happened. And I think people have this kind of shared experience of, "Ah, okay, this is actually really quite difficult. It's bringing up a lot of emotions." Like I say, for lots of different reasons.

And, if it's okay to say, I think something that the Brits do very well is that kind of real camaraderie and people will pull together. And, seeing some of the images, as I'm sure you have probably seen, of the queues of tens of thousands of people all wanting to go and pay their respects. And not necessarily because she was the queen or it's the monarchy, but just respects to this woman who's dedicated her life to her service. And I think we all are also acutely aware that, take all of that away, she was a great-grandmother. She was a grandmother. A mother. She has a family. And whilst the majority of us have no concept of what that's like, to be a part of that family, and like I say, whether we agree with it or not, on a human level, she was a woman who had a family and has faced many, many challenges. So I think it's been an interesting time.

And of course, managing... Because everyone's entitled to their opinion and everyone has their own views, of course they do, based on their own experience, there's been a lot of... I'm going to use the word "hate," which is a very strong word to use, but understandably so. And I find it fascinating in my role, because my job as a therapist is to be impartial, is to not pass judgment, is to simply meet people where they are and hear what they have to say; so it's been really interesting, from my perspective, hearing people's opinions on it, hearing people's views and their experiences, and being able to try and understand that. And I believe that by doing that, that's how also how we learn. That's how we evolve. That's how we, again, become more resilient, because it's a different experience.

Dr. Dave:

Thank you for sharing that context with me and the listeners. So, Lisa, I just want to say thank you for your generosity today. Thank you for sharing your insights and knowledge and your experiences with me, and also with the audience. I really appreciate that.

Lisa Jones:

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Dave:

In closing, I want to say thank you for listening to the KnolShare with Dr. Dave podcast. I invite you to come back for more insights and perspectives that may help you with discovering Resiliently You.

 

if you want to connect with Lisa, connect with Lisa Jones at [email protected]. That's [email protected].

 

KnolShare with Dr. Dave podcast is streamed on Spotify, Apple, Audible, and Google, and many other streaming platforms, as well.

 

I want to say thank you to Kayanna Brow-Hendricksen for dropping in music for this podcast.

 

This podcast is copyright 2022 by Dr. Dave Cornelius and Knolshare.org.

Again, thank you for listening and stay tuned for our next episode of Resiliently You as we continue to share our stories and experiences. Be well and we will speak soon.

What is the importance of belonging, and why do we all need to belong somewhere? It is built into our human nature. Learn how the powerful philosophy of Ubuntu helps to deliver a simple roadmap to building positive teams and relationships, improving engagement and performance. Get your copy of Belonging and Healing: Creating Awesomeness for Yourself and Others by Dr. Dave Cornelius on Amazon.com.