EAFH35: Tracy and Sabrina Shares Social Justice Experiences in an Interracial Family

Dr. Dave:

Tracy Trace and her daughter Sabrina. Welcome to the KnolShare with Dr. Dave podcast. How are you guys doing today?

Tracy:

You go first Bri.

Dr. Dave:

She's like ...

Sabrina:

I'm good. How are you all?

Dr. Dave:

You good? We're amazing. We're amazing. How about you, Tray, what's going on with you?

Tracy:

I'm doing all right.

Dr. Dave:

All right. I'm happy to hear that. How's my friend, Steve? My bro-in-law.

Tracy:

Oh, he's fine.

Dr. Dave:

I just want to let you know that I have a bromance with your dad, so it's just a thing. So let's just start, and perhaps you guys could do an elevator pitch to introduce yourselves. I know lots about you, but I'd rather let the audience hear it in your own voice.

Tracy:

I am Tracy Treacy and I have known Dr. Dave for a long time.

Dr. Dave:

Good, good.

Tracy:

I have no idea how long. All of my adulthood I have known Dr. Dave, how's that?

Dr. Dave:

That's true.

Tracy:

Yes.

Dr. Dave:

Yes.

Tracy:

All of my adulthood. And for profession, I am a psychotherapist.

Dr. Dave:

Okay.

Tracy:

And for my identity, I am a mom and I enjoy being a mom. And I, I call myself a, I don't know, self-care guru, something like that, holistic healer. Been doing it for about 20 some years. And I enjoy what I do, work does not feel like work, so I'm never dreading doing what I'm doing. It always feels like I'm walking in my light and in where I'm supposed to be and life is good.

Dr. Dave:

Good. So Sabrina, can I get an elevator pitch from you?

Sabrina:

So, I'm Sabrina. I guess if my mom introduces herself as a mother, I'm a daughter. I live in Brooklyn and I first and foremost am a nerd. It dictates the way that I approach my work and my personal life. I just want to get to know everything about everything all the time, but specifically as it relates to slavery and race. And so, right now, I work for a digital media lab called Accelerate Change and we support digital organizers across the country in a new organizing fashion called blended organizing, which we will start building January 1st. And our support for organizers basically turned out marginal votes for the November 3rd general election. And so, now we're working really hard to get it together for the Georgia runoff. So that's what I do in my day job, without the day job I would just be reading and writing about slavery.

Dr. Dave:

Man, I am so glad I'm getting to know you, I really am. Hey, so it's really awesome that mom and daughter living in a mixed family. So how has that shaped your thinking and experiences with social justice?

Tracy:

Hm. Why don't you take that one Sabrina?

Sabrina:

Well, I mean we were just talking about this.

Tracy:

We were.

Sabrina:

What was that two hours ago? Literally it was a mistake, but serendipitous, I guess at this point. I woke up this morning thinking about how oftentimes growing up, I would see my mom's race getting called into question. And it was really strange for me because I always thought that she was excited about it, that's the way I perceived it as a young individual. And then on top of the constant questioning that I was going through, so people would be like, "What are you?" Every day of my life since K5. And no one can make sense of my race, but I knew that I was Black, I knew that I was a Black girl, but I didn't know that these questions were traumatizing, over interrogative, violent. It's not fun to have your race be called into question every day, and I saw my mom actually enjoy it or what I perceived was her enjoying it.

And so, that dictated the way that I walked through the world, especially going to a predominantly White grade school, predominantly White high school, and then a predominantly White college and just gross politics over the fetishization over the racially ambiguous and navigating being black. I'm Black. So I don't know, it's shaped the way that I've walked through the world and if that's relative to social justice, I think that would be a valid conclusion only because if we think about the personal being the political and the work that I do, it's everything, right?

Tracy:

Okay, thank you Sabrina.

Dr. Dave:

Do you have anything to add mom?

Tracy:

I don't know, my goodness. Well, when I was questioned, Sabrina mentioned I was questioned about what race I am, my mother was always questioned about what race she was.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Tracy:

So when I was questioned, what Sabrina perceived as excitement for me was identifying with my mother. So it made me feel like, "Oh, I'm just like my mother. People are questioning her race and they question mine and now they're questioning Sabrina. So it's just a thing we go through as the women in my family." So it wasn't received as excitement to me, it was just expected, and it was like a, "Huh, here we go again," but that kind of thing. And I remember my mother never questioning her race, I never questioned my race and when I looked at Sabrina, I never questioned whether she was a Black girl or not.

So I wasn't walking or witnessing her as a biracial woman, I was witnessing her as a Black woman and not ambiguous at all. So for me, it was just really interesting watching or hearing her even say this and then watching it -- in my own experience. And the social justice part of it, and this is me maybe saying some things Sabrina, that might not be accurate, but this is my take that I think how it has shaped Sabrina is that she's much, I'm going to speak to you, you're much more attuned to it because of how you're questioned about your race. And how you show up in the world based on your physical, right? And I think it has definitely led you to a place where it's going to be part of the world and the work that you do as you move through the world as an adult.

Dr. Dave:

Fabuloso. I'm just trying to think of the type of conversations that you guys have about empathy, about Black, Indigenous and people of color lives when you guys get together. Whether either it's through the digital realm or when you're back at home in Wisconsin. I would like to hear what are some of those conversations that's taken place? How do you have empathy for BIPOC lives?

Tracy:

I think they're the focus of many of our conversations, wouldn't you say Sabrina?

Sabrina:

I would say that 75% of the things we talk about are within the realm.

Tracy:

Right, right.

Dr. Dave:

Not baking cookies. I'm just kidding.

Tracy:

Well, Sabrina is the cookie baker, so there is no discussion there. She's got that hands down.

Dr. Dave:

There you go.

Tracy:

Now, if we're talking about cooking then there might be a little bit of a discussion, but she's definitely the cookie baker. Empathy is a thing that I think wove itself through my parenting and who I am as a person. I'm an empath by nature, so I feel things from that other people feel. And I would branch out and say that Sabrina is an empath herself and feels very deeply how people feel. And when you feel deeply how people feel you can't help but to look at the world from a space of feelings and think about how a person may feel or what place or space they're in when they move through the world.

And I think it was just inferred and it was led by example, and it is just in how I do what I do. And historically most of the people that I've worked with in my private practice have been, at least 50%, people of color. And that has definitely led to understanding more deeply my place in the world and how to help them navigate in the world. And I'm going to stop because I can keep going on that and I'll let you take that Sabrina.

Dr. Dave:

I like it.

Sabrina:

So I think empathy, I'm currently a little jaded about it right now, but that's because four years ago I tried really hard ... I mean, there's some family members on the White side that aren't in line with the views that I have and I was trying to come at it from an empathetic place and it didn't work. It failed miserably. And so, to experience that at, I was 20, right? So I was a sophomore in college, Donald Trump had just gotten elected and I was like, "Okay, they're totally going to get me. We're family, we're blood, la, da, da, da." And empathy didn't work. So I think in terms of the conversations that we now have within the immediate family, the empathy is there. I don't have to encourage my brother to try and walk in a woman's shoes or my dad to try and walk in a woman's shoes, or my dad try and walk in a Black person's shoes, it's there.

Sabrina:

... And so, it's made the energy that I put into this work a lot easier, because I'm able to pace out the amount of empathy that I expect from people just by the nature of our family system, which has been a great lesson. And I'm happy to have learned that by my mid-twenties, what? Cool. It's going to make my life a lot easier, hopefully. But yeah, I mean, I'm an empath by nature, and that's why I do the work I do.

Dr. Dave:

Well Sabrina, I'm going to stay with you. And I wanted to describe what it was like growing up in, I would call an upper middle-class, Wisconsin suburb, and then going to school there and then living in New York, how would you contrast the experiences?

Sabrina:

How do I be brief? Growing up upper-middle class in Wisconsin in a suburb Black with a white parent was ridiculous, especially in Milwaukee, which is one of the worst places to be Black. One of the most segregated cities in the U.S. I was bullied a little bit in grade school, too, for being weird. And now coming out of it, I'm realizing that was probably racially motivated. Because I liked to wear my hair like a video girl. And I liked wearing Baby Phat sweatsuits, and I wanted hoop earrings. I was doing all these crazy, fun dances. So people at grade school were like, who is this human being?

And then also, I do talking white, right? We don't say that anymore. What is the politically correct term for saying talking white?

Dr. Dave:

I have no idea what the political word... We'll leave that to you.

Sabrina:

My mom also wanted her kids to be raised around Black kids. So we went to Black churches, I danced at a Black dance school. And people always chastised me for the way that I talked, which was proper or white or whatever, which I guess it hurt in the moment, because I was like, Oh, I'm also like being made fun of. But also, I don't want to have that tragic mulatto narrative because it wasn't painful. I felt much more comfortable with the people at church and the people at dance.

The only thing that separated me from them, was the way that I speak. And I wasn't always hip to the jokes that they experienced in their schools because I was at a white school. So that was kind of the general upbringing of things. And then in high school, I kept to myself pretty much freshman and sophomore year. Junior and senior year I was elected the school mascot. And I say I was elected because it's not as if I didn't make the basketball team. Right? They wanted me to be the mascot. They were like, yeah, we elected this person.

So I was the mascot, and I had a blast as an upper classmen. I was in theater. I was a super theater nerd, and I was also popular. So I got invited to all the cool people parties. And so, I don't know. Race didn't really rear its ugly head in high school also because social media wasn't the interface that it is right now. So we had a super beta Snapchat. Instagram, you were lucky if you got 20 likes on a photo. Twitter was me just being dumb like I am right now. Twitter hasn't changed much, and my relationship with Twitter hasn't changed much. But there wasn't this thing where you could find a community of human beings that look like you, that were raised like you. So I was like the weird buffoon in high school in the penguin costume that also read a lot about race and loved Tony Morrison and was welcomed by both the Black and the white students.

I mean, my high school institutionally, was trash. And I would love if I had gone to a different high school, but as a "Black kid", it wasn't a horrendous experience. It wasn't like it was grade school. It was just that when I got to college, I was like, Oh, this is who I am. This is how people see me. This is how I'm perceived. This is how I want to be. I can be friends with a bunch of Black people all the time and surround myself with them all the time and not be 18% of my class. Well, NYU has I think 4% Black population, which is horribly low. For it to be touted as this progressive institution, is some bullshit. But I still had a blast in college because my first Black professor was Toni, and I was a junior in college.

So I had a really difficult time navigating what I wanted and how I could get it, because I had a white advisor. She wasn't hearing me and hearing what I needed. She wasn't delivering. And so, I was just taking in text outside of class. I was discovering slavery and discovering law and discovering culture and what not, in an academic sense, which is valuable to me. It doesn't necessarily need to be valuable to the masses, but it's valuable to me.

Then by the time I was a junior, I got my footing. I was like, Okay, I'm going to do Black studies. And I basically had a phenomenal time academically in school because of that. Freshman and sophomore year was hairy and gross because I didn't have the support that I needed. And in terms my community, it is so much fun. I live in a Caribbean neighborhood, so there's Nan white folk around. And so, race doesn't necessarily feel like up. I mean, it's a problem everywhere, but I'm not constantly hit with your other. I'm in a place where I'm welcomed and celebrated.

And furthermore, I feel like I'm stepping on everybody's toes as a Black gentrifier and not having a super long relationship with the community. I've been here for five years rather than decades. So navigating that is like this other thing of, am I doing right for my community? Especially as a Black person, am I increasing rent? I don't know. So I would say that it's much easier to live here, and I don't want to leave here because of that. And I hate going back to Wisconsin because of that.

Dr. Dave:

Understood. Your grandpa, Peter, he super loved the Caribbean. He always says that we're related. But we are related, so that's it. Done.

Tracy:

There you go.

Dr. Dave:

[inaudible 00:21:20]

Sabrina:

Oh, we know. Oh, we know. There's a lot in that lineage.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. Let's talk about women of color. Who gives you inspiration? Who?

Tracy:

Yeah, I'm going to pass that one on to Sabrina because-

Dr. Dave:

Oh, I thought you would say Tag.

Tracy:

Well, definitely my mom. Definitely my mom. I didn't want to start with that because I didn't want Sabrina to feel obligated to say me, so I wanted-

Dr. Dave:

That's not going to happen. She's going to start with Toni Morrison.

Tracy:

I know. Exactly. I just want to know who she was going to start with. So yeah, my mother. My mother, she was a hell of a woman. She was not the most gentle mother when I was a child. She was very firm. She didn't take no shit.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, no joke.

Tracy:

She was no joke, and it was nothing but respect for her. Sabrina said, "bullshit" a couple of sentences ago, and that would have never come out of my mouth in front of my mother. Absolutely not. And my mother, big mama was inspiration for me. My mother's mom. She was a very strong, independent woman who had eight children and was not the most hands-on mother, but she was a very hands-on grandmother.

And I remember looking at her when I was a kid and wanting to be strong like big mama when I grew up and very independent. And I think I got the strong part. Still working on the independence. And my mother was a very independent woman, and she was a fixer-upper. She could, I don't know, she could strip woodwork, and she could install a light. She could do all of those things that every woman should know how to do, but we always don't know how to do. So when things come up broken in our house, I can fix it or Steven can fix it. Some things, not everything, but if a light needs to be installed, that can happen.

There's a lot of equity in my household. And I learned that equity from my mother, even though I wasn't raised in an equitable household. It was very traditional. But I learned from her that I could do anything, which translated into my relationship, which is kind of cool. So my inspiration isn't from a book, it is from real life folk. And I had a grandmother, my father's mother, Miss Ollie, is what we called her.

My father told a story when he was a little kid that a bull was chasing him. And my grandmother grabbed the bull by a horn and stopped the bull from, yeah, from ripping his bridges. And she had a shotgun with her, so right. And she was all of 4 11, maybe 110 pounds soaking wet and had 20 pregnancies. Right. Well, that's folklore, but I know I have 14 aunts and uncles. So my father was from a really big family.

The women in my life have just been very strong. And I know I can do anything as a woman. I don't doubt my capabilities as a woman because of them. So, there you go. Even though they weren't feminists, but they did their own shit. They, you know-

Dr. Dave:

You know. You know.

Tracy:

Mm-hmm (affirmative) Right, right. Okay. Sabrina?

Sabrina:

Well, I'll first start

Sabrina:

Start off with my mom.

Dr. Dave:

Yes. Love it.

Tracy:

Yeah.

Because I would be a poopy child if I didn't. No. And because there's genuine validity to it. I'm called little Tracy often, because I am little Tracy. So, it's like, if she didn't inspire me, then I wouldn't exist. If I am her duplicate, if I'm her mini-me, well then she just carbon copied me. So, I'm excited to continuously become her more and more, because that's exciting and she rocks. So, I'm just excited for the future in that aspect. And then yeah, there is this incredible lineage of black women in our family that... I only knew big mama, my big mama, out of all of that. I wanted to be her best friend, but she couldn't go there.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Sabrina:

And I also have a hard time being vulnerable, but I think if she was still alive today, that's the type of relationship that I would want to have with her, because I think I would be able to navigate that better with her. And it sucks that I can't because I miss her.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Sabrina:

Because I was her little buddy. I was my mom's road doggy and I was also big mama's road doggy, and the way that I always hear about me as a baby growing up is big mama was the first person that could calm me down outside of my mom. So I know -

Tracy:

That was so annoying. So annoying.

Sabrina:

Yeah. And then also my cousin, Maria, she's my best friend. And she and I, I would hope that the inspirational is dual, but every time I talk to her, I feel more centered and I feel better about myself and the person that I'm supposed to become because she validates me on a level, like generationally, she's 31. So we're within years of each other, but not like my mom, she's not 30 years removed from me. And so she inspires me because I don't know what it is. It's like, she works really hard, she has a family. And then she's there for me presently all the time. So I always want to give her props and then I can give you a list of authors and activists, and what have you, that I'm sure is a normal laundry list that anyone has. But yep, I would keep it within the family too.

Dr. Dave:

You know what, man? That is an excellent choice, Tracy. No, I love, I love tag. There's amazing lady. So Tracy, you attended agile for humanity building economic liberation, open space event, and you spoke about big and small trauma and its effecting on how we navigate the world. Share a little about that and then share a little bit about your experience with the agile community.

Tracy:

So trauma is something that, how do I explain or talk about that in two seconds? How I think trauma affects how we navigate the world, is through everything we do. And I don't know if we always recognize when trauma has happened. We heard Sabrina a little bit earlier about her childhood trauma experience with being asked, what are you? Besides a human being, what are you? And that said two or three times could equate into a little trauma. That said years and years and years, as a narrative can become a big trauma. And if I could use Sabrina as an example, if that can equate as a big trauma, then that affects how she navigates the world, which is what we talked about a little earlier. Right? It's because of her interests, how she's experienced the world, her interest has been pretty much narrowed or at least targeted to a certain space or a certain area where she feels very passionate about.

And because the trauma affected her in a way that affected her identity, that could go really deep. And there's many ways she could take that. But from what I'm seeing, she's turning that trauma into a positive situation. Right? We don't all have that luxury of having a mom as a therapist and when something happens and I go, all right, let me put my therapist hat on here for a minute or is it all right if I put my therapist hat on? Because sometimes it doesn't need to go on. Right? And being able to help navigate that. So she can come out and at least process to get out on the other side is really important. Most people don't know how to do that or even know how to label a trauma. And then we think about traumas, the big ones as the catastrophes, the physical, the sexual, the verbal and mental abuses. Because physical and sexual abuse are huge traumas.

Whereas if I could say Sabrina's had dings to her soul but those little traumas that keeps ding, ding, ding, ding, dinging, they do become a big trauma. And how do we work through that is really important because that affects how we navigate the world. If we haven't worked through any of those traumas, whether they're small or big, they stay present for us all the time. And whenever something happens that makes us feel like in original foundational trauma, we get activated. Most people call it triggered. I call it activated, because there is nothing triggering it because it's always there. It just gets activated. And how I respond has everything to do with how I went through it in my younger days or whenever it happened. And I'm navigating the world based on a traumatic experience that may not be happening now. Does that make sense?

Dr. Dave:

Makes lots of sense.

Tracy:

Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's important how we label them, how we accept them and how we process them. And if I could just say one more thing, it is okay to admit that what you've experienced was traumatic. It's okay to validate it. No matter if somebody thinks, Oh I went through that too. And that ain't nothing. Yeah. But that's their experience if you went through it and it felt horrific to you, then that was traumatic to you, and be able to own that and validate that.

Dr. Dave:

True that. Talk to me about my agile community now.

Tracy:

So now, you called about this agile stuff and I'm like, I don't know what that mess is. I know what the word means, but I don't know what this thing is. And I didn't know, like do I fit in, I'm just the therapist, I'm not part of this community of, I don't know. I call you engineers and computer geeks and that kind of folk.

Dr. Dave:

No.

Tracy:

I know, you know, the eggheads, the nerds as Sabrina calls it and I'm like how does it fit into this. And then what you said to me was Tracy, we're just people and all, no shit you are people. Because I have clients who are computer folks, engineers, teachers, lawyers, all kinds of clients. So as I worked through my insecurities about being part of the agile community, I said, you know what? People are people, here we go. And I think that I like it obviously because I'm doing this with you and I'm hanging around and I did a conference and we're going to do another one in February

Dr. Dave:

And Sabrina is going to be a volunteer.

Tracy:

All right, Sabrina! So no, my experience has been very welcoming and the people have been nothing but welcoming. I feel valued and I feel that's reciprocal. I value you all. And I feel valued in the community.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah. It's a beautiful community. So let's talk about this historic election that we just had. We have Kamala Harris as the first woman and person of color and as the VP elect. What gives you hope?

Tracy:

Well, first you got to say Camilla, not Kamala.

Dr. Dave:

I'm from the Caribbean. So, you know, you got to, we screw up our A's, we make [inaudible 00:36:34].

Sabrina:

So is she.

Tracy:

I know. Right?

Sabrina:

She's Jamaican.

Dr. Dave:

I know. But you know, I'm talking when you like when you actually live there. Your diction gets a little bit different Kamala, if she was in St. Croix with me, it would be "Kamala!" Right? And Sabrina, you know, if you were in Brooklyn and you saw Kamala, Kamala! Kamala walking down the street, there! Right?

Sabrina:

You'd fit right in over here.

Dr. Dave:

There you go.

Tracy:

You sound like papa Peter. Oh my goodness! Goodness gracious, okay Sabrina, you go first.

Sabrina:

So I don't want to be a buzzkill.

Tracy:

So let's not be.

Dr. Dave:

You could be a buzzkill.

Sabrina:

Yeah. I was going to say, I don't think that we should, I'm not going to be fake about my feelings about whether or not I find her place in office historic. Right?

Dr. Dave:

Okay.

Tracy:

What gives you hope?

Sabrina:

My feelings about Kamala's victory is that representation politics are not always good. In fact, they could be, they can be more detrimental to racial justice movements. So remembering that is really important that just because she's in the office, doesn't mean that we've won. When I say we, I mean, black women doesn't mean that the us has won because we put a black woman in the office and she has an incredibly egregious record as an attorney general. And it's kind of scary that we're having an actual cop who some of us call cop Mala in the office, because her policies in Northern California in San Francisco were like, like heinous, horrible, heinous things. So I think that it's important to remember that all skin folk ain't kin folk. Right. But if

Sabrina:

If we're talking about hope, I am incredibly hopeful about the work that black women. I'm getting there. I just wanted... We're not going to celebrate. Thank you. Okay. I think that in terms of hope, in terms of hope. Right?

So black women did the biggest lift of grassroots organizing across the country to get a literal wet blanket elected to office. Joe Biden was an incredibly hard sell and black women got black people out there to say like, "You know what? Trump isn't worth it." He's not worth this, "I'm not going to vote because I don't like Joe Biden. We've got to get Trump out." So basically these grassroots organizers got a bunch of people organized to care about something on a macro sociopolitical level with these horrible two human beings, those being Joe Biden and Donald Trump. So I'm very hopeful for the work that grassroots organizing has done and the potential that we can become after we've gotten all of these people mobilized. Because that means that the critiques to Kamala can happen consistently, fair, and with a ton of people. So maybe she will actually listen this time and not lock up parents of truant children.

And maybe we can actually work towards a system of defunding and abolishing the police. Right? Maybe we can get there, but we have more people. And the scary thing is that I hear a lot of organizers say is that we just don't have enough people. Right? Well, we've got 77 million so far, let's work harder to get more. And I think that we were successful. Right? And in this general to get a lot of people for a wet blanket. So I'm a hopeful for that. I'm hopeful for the future of mobilization and organizing.

Dr. Dave:

Sister Tra?

Tracy:

Thank you, Sabrina. I'm going to piggyback on that. I am very hopeful because of the organizing that happened, because of all the people that got together to change the course of where this election could have gone. I'm very hopeful that we now know how we can come together and that we can build on that to be able to work together, to get some of those things in place of what has been talked about. Right? And to hold both of them accountable for what needs to be changed. It's the things that we've talked about, the systemic racism, it's the criminal justice system, it's having these folks in jail for these bogus drug charges, serving time. And having felonies on their records so they can't find jobs and they can't vote once they get out. Getting that crap really, really situated so that people can start really living a life that they've dreamt of living, not because of some bogus ass charge that they have.

So I'm really hopeful that some of this will happen. And that because of the grassroots organizers, it will be pushed, and it'll be pushed, and it will be pushed and it will be heard. Or at least it will be attempted to be said, it will be said, and maybe heard, hopefully and then maybe some change can happen. So I am very hopeful that we can... If in January we can get a Democratic Senate I think we're good. I think we can make some changes. So there's hope. And yay Kamala because she's my peer and it's kind of dope to see somebody in office that looks like me. Right? I wear Chuck Taylors and she wears Chuck Taylors. So we're good, we're good.

Dr. Dave:

All right. You know, celebrate, celebrate, celebrate.

Tracy:

And I think we had a lot to do with it as black women. I think that was pretty, pretty dope.

Dr. Dave:

Without a doubt, without a doubt. So any final words before we sign off before we stop recording?

Tracy:

Well, this was fun. I didn't know what to expect, but this was good. Thank you, Dave, appreciate it. Thank you for asking us?

Dr. Dave:

Yeah, of course. We've been talking about this a months.

Tracy:

Yeah we have.

Dr. Dave:

Yeah we have. I knew the dialogue would be rich. I knew that already. I knowing you, you knowing me, the conversations that we've had. And then I've heard lots about Sabrina. So I said, "This dialogue is going to be rich." I really appreciate that. I really do.

Tracy:

Same here.

Dr. Dave:

Sabrina?

Sabrina:

Do you have any questions for us outside of questions you've already asked?

Dr. Dave:

No, but I am going to be reaching out to you. I have some work that I need your support for my non-profit. And so I'll be reaching out to you, I'm asking for your help and maybe you will but if you do, I'll be eternally grateful. And I look forward to hanging out with you someday, when we can hang out with people together. I Look forward to that.

Tracy:

Right. Yeah, and Sabrina you have any final words?

Dr. Dave:

Yeah.

Sabrina:

I never, no, no, I don't.

Dr. Dave:

She goes, drop the mic.

Sabrina:

It's kind of, right. It is strange though, doing this with my mother for something that's public.

Dr. Dave:

Maybe that's why it took a while for us to gather, since you guys always have these private conversations. Your mom had to put on her therapist hat and think about what might we talk about potentially?

Tracy:

You know what? When I was a professor, I talked so much about my children that this is not a surprise, or this is not foreign to me to have this conversation. Sabrina, wasn't talking about it, but she integrates me in many of her conversations. So for us to do this is very interesting. I think that's what makes it interesting. We do it separately, but not together. Would that be right Sabrina?

Sabrina:

I talk about my mom all the time, all the time. It's inappropriate sometimes.

Dr. Dave:

I love it. I really love it.

Sabrina:

Well, my mom said in a work meeting, it's like, "No, you're ass grown adult. We don't care what your mom says." And I'm like, "But she's right."

Dr. Dave:

Yeah what do you think?

Tracy:

Yeah. Right, right, right.

Dr. Dave:

No, this was beautiful and I knew it would be beautiful. So I'm just really appreciative. Thank you for listening to the KnolShare with Dr. Dave Podcast. I hope this learning experience would also prompt you to seek more and discover how you can contribute to the positive experiences for BiPAP lies. It doesn't take much. All we need to do is to tap into our own humanity.

You will find agile for humanity, social justice, and impact series on the KnolShare with Dr. Dave Podcast on iTunes, Google Play, and Spotify. The Agile for Humanity Social Justice and Impact Series is also on the following websites. You could go to agilealliance.org or knolsharewithddave.com or grokshare.com, knolshare.org, and also the agileforhumanity.org website.

Just under Agile Alliance website I want you to look for Sharing Black Lives, Indigenous and People of Color stories on their website under their webcast.

 

I want to give some shout out for contributions to Kyanna Brow-Hendrickson for the music that we use.

And this podcast is copyright 2020 by KnolShare and Dr. Dave Cornelius.

So until next time I say, "Be well, stay safe and let's get connected."