EAFH66: Dr. Dave Presents at Scrum User Group South Africa (SUGSA)

Kayana Singing  00:07

We all have something to share. KnolShare with Dr. Dave


Dr. Dave  00:15

there's a few things that I'm going to ask you to do. I'm not going to do all the work and in presenting today, so looking to chat, check out this, I'm going to use min T, for us to interact about certain things. And look, I'm going to ask you questions I want you to jump in. And so I am hyper excited to be here today. Other things that, if I'm going to drop a bunch of links in the chat, if you want to connect with me, check out some of the books, some of the websites that I do have,


Dr. Dave  00:52

you know, if my LinkedIn profile, I'm a big connector, so I connect with people from across the globe, and, you know, try to build relationships, right, and try to also give back to our community. You know, I saw like one of your members last year, Ellie, you know, she spoke at the Agile for humanity conference. And that's my background, we have a conference annually. So we do lightning talk. So if you're interested in jumping in to doing a lightning talk, I'll send an invite to this group. And you certainly can be a speaker. And also, we do a bi monthly meetup as well. So you know, we're big community people, we try to connect with people around the world. And, you know, that's how we roll. So I'm gonna go ahead and get started.


Dr. Dave  01:41

You want to continue, and go ahead and get started and start the presentation. And we get into full screen. So we're gonna be jumping back and forth, you know, I'll be in mentee, you know, asking you questions. And, you know, I'll be back and forth with the presentation. So let's just get started. You know, I'm really excited to be here today really, to share this topic. You know, this topic do you deliver value comes from two books that I've released, one in 2022, called deliver value, happy, contributing people, satisfied customers, and thriving business


Dr. Dave  02:19

is the core book that I released in 2022. And then I just released this other book called Innovation catalysts. And this is a fictional story about a chef Ashanti Mundo is her name. And


Dr. Dave  02:36

she uses, you know, the principle of Ubuntu, to help her lead with empathy, and to be a catalyst. So check out some of the links, you can find a lot of these books on


Dr. Dave  02:50

Amazon as well. So, you know, the so the whole idea about asking the question, do you deliver value? It's a thing. It's the thing that


Dr. Dave  03:02

I asked myself as a coach, I asked myself as a trainer, even as you know, a husband and a dad, as a friend. And I said, do I deliver? Do I deliver value? am I delivering value? I mean, and if you're truly trying to be a change agent to get better at the things that you do, you will ask yourself this question, and it's okay. So I came up with this thing called, you know, the definition of value. You know, if you have a definition of ready and definition definition of done, I think we should have a definition of value called dove. Right. And so I went out, and I spoke to a few people interviewing for the book. And so the first place I started is the dictionary called Merriam Webster, you know, we talked to Mariamman. And what we got back is that the definition of value is a fair return, or equivalent and good services or money for something exchanged. That was great. And so good. That was a great start. So if you know who Diana Larson is she created, you know, agile retrospective would in her book, and so if you're doing retrospective, you know, she is one of the people who are responsible for bringing that to our community. And I interviewed her, she said, you know, in her wisdom, I think there there are different kinds of values, she says, one is customer one is business and one is strategic direction. Marty is someone that runs a coding camp out in Portland, Oregon, so I had a chat with him too. And he said, it's a positive exchange positive emotion and experience. Cool, different views. And I went to Dave West, who is the CEO of scrum.org. And he goes, Yeah, you may ask, why is the person buying that thing? What is the value they want to achieve? And then Howard sublet, who is the ex CEO of Scrum Alliance, and he said, the relationship between the amount someone pays and what they perceive that they get an exchange so how it's submitted was closer to Maryam in terms of her definition, but as you could see, there are different definitions for value based on who you speak to even if you ask people in that room, what is your definition of value, you may get a different answer. So I've said, Cool, I have five different perspective of what value is. So why don't I define value as well. So my definition of value is value is a measurable outcome that can be realized and shared. And I am housing it this way. For a very specific reason, you know, when you do lots of research, you know, there's this thing called a conceptual framework that you may want to use like Scrum, you could use as a conceptual framework, as a way to do research. So part of my thinking is that, hey, if I'm doing research about value, if I have a definition of value, then that's something that can be used in conversations. And I can tell you, it's very tangible. So when I say value is measurable, right? How much money how much this What did I get in return? I couldn't measure that. I said value is outcome focused. So it's customer centric. What is my customers getting? What am I getting? In the process? I said value is realizable. And it means that he has great to have dreams and a pipe dreams in your mind. But it should be something that can be achieved. And I said value is shareable. And we live in a world where we use social media as a tool to share lots of information. Matter of fact, it's so awesome now that we could share that I could be in Tucson, Arizona, and pipe into Johannesburg, South Africa, and shared this concept about value. So it should be shareable. As we're building stuff. And we're building software, we're building different products and services for our customers, we should have a definition of value that is measurable, that is outcome focused, that is realizable, and it's shareable. Right? So I've given you a few different definition of value. I gave you value from Merriam Webster, I gave you from Diana Larson from Marty Nelson, Dave West and Howard sublet. I gave you the great talk to Dave's definition. Well, I'm not great, but the definition as you know, the great definition by Dr. Dave. And so I'm going to jump into mentee. And I hopefully, you know, you could join me on your phone, you could join me in a computer. So I'm going to stop sharing and jump into mentee and said hey, look, go ahead and go into the chat. And and I'm going to ask you to do something for me come back here. I'm going to ask you to do something for me, here's mentee, go to mentee.com and enter the code 74024277. Right. And so because I'm going to present now and asked the question, you know, what words come to mind when we talk about value? All right. And so we're going to use the same link and the same code. So as I'm going through each page, and as you can see, people are beginning to provide feedback as what value is to them. Where we have some people who are talking about efficient flow flow is beautiful when you have flow. It's just an amazing thing. You know, you know what? It's like Dolla dolla bills, yo, I love it, you know, cash cash dollar. Love it. So, since you guys are already providing feedback as to what value is your perspective, because each one was maybe a little bit different. You know, I want to hear someone who's who wrote seeing a deliverable. What did you mean? Well, give us a little story about seeing a deliverable. If you you know, just jump in there if you could, if you could hear if you could speak and you have a microphone, go ahead and share that back with the group.


SUGSA Attendee  09:17

I'm seeing it inevitable. So it is something he has agreed on that I want to deliver the indoor period.


Dr. Dave  09:27

Wonderful. That is beautiful. What about efficient flow who did efficient, efficient flow? I love flow


Dr. Dave  09:40

don't be afraid to come forward and share.


SUGSA Attendee  09:45

Hi, well, I put efficient flow down because it just goes to show that your team is being efficient. They are actually delivering value, whatever they promised, you know actually delivered it and yeah, to me, that's it. I have a feeling


Dr. Dave  10:02

that is a wonderful feeling. But what about one more as a returning customer? Why is that a definition of value for you?


SUGSA Attendee  10:16

Me, so, exciting customer. For me, it says we've done such a good job was any customer for me means we've done such a great job. They want to come back, we experienced whatever we delivered.


Dr. Dave  10:32

Yeah, that's excellent. So as you could see that, you know, and even in dialog, okay, even in dialog, we've come up with various different definition of what value is, which is, which is something that I just wanted to point out why it's important for us to understand that have a definition of value, because you know, when we're working with our customers, they may have a different definition of value. And so when we talk about why is delivering value relevant or important, you know, I said, when value is realized and shared, you know, customers are loyal, and satisfied, those are those returning customers that we just talked about, you know, happy employees are happy contributing people, those are the people who are what you're working with, you're trying to get stuff done. You know, it just makes life a lot easier as you're working as a team. You know, you said organizations have viable and they thrive, right, that when the are sustainable, they're able to live for a long time, even to the point where, you know, I heard someone saying that you change your business name to old mutual, well, you know, that company has been around a while to be able to, that means they're viable, they're thriving, they can even rebrand, but you know, what, delivering value just feels good. You know, I mean, I don't know, if you've ever been in a situation where, you know, you're delivering value. And, you know, it's just an amazing feeling as a team, you know, people celebrate who you are. And, you know, people really appreciate the work that you do. And it's not even just at work, it may be in your family, in your community, where you have an opportunity to deliver value for someone else. And even for yourself, don't forget you, right. So when we think about the benefits of delivering value I speak, I view it in the context of three different themes. One of them is happy contributing people, right? I mean, there's nothing like having happy contributing people, in your organization, satisfied customers, if you have satisfied customers, you have revenue coming in you have and that will help to drive a thriving business. So when I think about the benefits of delivering value, happy contributing people, satisfied customers, and thriving business, really important stuff for us to, to pay attention to. Now, the other aspect of this that I want to talk about is that the attributes of happy contributing people is that they have a purpose, right. And so I use the word compassionate, because to me, that transcends empathy, right, it includes empathy, as well, but to be compassionate, to feel to see to be able to take an action to help someone else, you know, in their journey, they master capabilities that I mean, they have skills, they go go out and get certified, but to be a scrum master, or product owner, or even a release, train engineer, someone spoke up earlier today. So those are the mastering capabilities. You go out and learn. But come to meetup groups like this one, right. And then it's about self organizing. This is what you're doing today. It's a form of self organization. And no one has to tell you to come to this meetup today. And people, the community of people putting this together, they came together, so they self organize, and now look, the great manifestation of a presentation about delivering value. So we're going to do the same thing, like, you know, like I told you guys, I'm not going to be the only one presenting today. So our next chat, you know, as we move forward, is that we're going to go over to the next slide. And I want to want you to tell me, what words come to mind when you think about happy contributing people. All right. This is add these two ladies that are in this picture. You know, they're from Israel, and we were working on a project in Phoenix. And we had happy we had these funny hats for our journey. And we're doing pi planning big room planning, right? So what comes to mind when you think about happy contributing people, people you've worked with people who are in your community, why don't you go ahead and continue use mentee and just continue to drop those then so we get an idea of what your experience have been? What Happy contributing people, if you notice, they're not just happy people, they're happy contributing people, they're putting something into, into the bucket, right? I'm trying to make sure that we fill the bucket up with goodness. And this is some of the ideas that you're you have experience in terms of happy contributing people goes above and beyond who said goes above and beyond share what you meant by that, or that experience.


Dr. Dave  15:35

Don't be afraid.


Dr. Dave  15:49

I didn't hear that. Share it up, be bold, and be bold, be bold.


SUGSA Attendee  15:59

And yeah, I've just seen that when


SUGSA Attendee  16:03

people are happy and pleasing and have a flow state they like, go over and above. They don't just do their job, they do more they committed, they're willing to do whatever it takes to not only get the work done, but the team's work done. Or if it's just like people that are willing to like, jump in and help towards a bigger goal than themselves?


Dr. Dave  16:24

Most definitely. Yes. Yeah. I mean, and I see someone also has that committed in there. One more, before we move on. Positivity, how about that? And I saw someone put Daniel Pink permis purpose autonomy mastery, as well. But let's hear what was your experience, like, when you met with someone that has positivity? As part of Yeah, go for it.


SUGSA Attendee  16:56

And I've noticed that if you involve them as well, they are more open to ideas, and they feel more positive about everything they do. And it's not actually for home and another meeting Marie want, now they're involved. So they're much more positive and much more contributing, having that, that mindset of we're in this together, it makes him so positive, to be involved of something, not just getting the answers.


Dr. Dave  17:23

I love it. Love it. And if someone else have something to say, feel free to share.


Dr. Dave  17:36

And if not, we're going to move on to to give you and I know this is most of you know this word Ubuntu. I am because we are. In a book that I wrote called belonging and healing, creating awesomeness for yourself. Also, I speak of Ubuntu. And matter of fact, I have incorporated it into my coaching. And where I practice. So the way I have positioned Ubuntu is that I see you, I value you, and I welcome you. And if you notice this, this image has just eyes and heart and hands is because that's that's the message that I want, when I'm working as a team, when I'm working in community is that I want people to see each other, I want people to value each other. And I want people to welcome each other because if I am because we are, this will help us to have the sense of belonging in our community. So this is one of the things that's needed for happy contributing people, it just doesn't happen by itself. There has to be some intentional actions and work put into it. But I also went and said, I want to share Ubuntu values. So I could think I see you value you and welcome you and said those are some boon to principles, things that you can actually do. Right? Because I am because we are as cool and as worthy. But I want people to take actions. And this was one way to convey i see i value I welcome. There's valuable work for you as an individual for each one of us to do. But when I think about the wound to values, I'm talking about patience and kindness, patience and kindness is, you know, in a Biblical sense, love is patient and kind. So that's what I'm talking about love, patience and kindness. I'm talking about safety, physically, psychologically, the things that we talked about in the Agile space of being, you know, having psychological safety, but I'm saying more safety, physical safety, economic safety as well. And a boon to values by being resilient is being able to succeed in spite of no matter how hard it is that we can still push through it. I mean, the positivity everyone working together as a, as a happy contributing group of people were resilient. And the other part of it is a partnership, where people working together genuinely, because they see you they value a new welcome you that type of partnership. And so that is the framing when we think of Ubuntu, that we can make this practical. We, you know, and not to say that people haven't made it practical, you know, in Africa itself, but I'm talking about the world is hold. And in the business context, how do we use this, to make sure that we have a great working environment to move forward? Now, besides a boon to I think leadership is a very important aspect of it, because you know, leaders help to shape culture, right? That's part of the conversation. So there is this whole concept of that put together called generative leadership values by generative leadership and culture was the it's performance based, resilient organization. And when I say generative, the word means to give birth to give life to, right. I mean, so if we're generative leaders, we're given life to the organization, we've given life to happy contributing people as part of the conversation. And so this is a big wheel of things of attribute these values that we will, we wouldn't pretty much wear and show up as when we come to work on or even one way in our community. You know, so we talked about one being having an abundance mindset. Carol Dweck talks about having a growth mindset, an abundance, inclusive growth mindset, that's much bigger, right? It's not only that we, we want to learn, but we have the ability to share, and give back and help other people in way. When I say focus on we is the second thing, we the collective, I'm talking about the willing and enabled the people who have are enabled to a skills we're practicing, right? The part of that leadership value, and the way we're going to show up is that number three is gonna we're going to trust everyone to achieve our goals, the collective our goals, right? We're going to win and lose as a team, as done before. Now we're going to partner to learn more, because sometimes we're working with partners, other companies, you know, other divisions in our organization. And sometimes we just don't partner enough and have enough conversations. Number six, you know, honestly, what did we learn from failure, you know, accepting the fact that it's okay for us to fail. But as long as we learn, right, that's the important thing. Number seven is run the experiment, then evaluate the hypothesis, because oftentimes, we come up with these beautiful ideas, we're gonna make $10 million from this idea, awesome. It's just a hypothesis. And we need to run the experiment to get validated learning as part of the journey. All right. And then my favorite number eight fun and joy, we should have fun and joy in what we do. And joy is based on Watson within. So you can see there's this eight different values that as you're going through, trying to build an environment of happy contributing people as a leader, you know, you come in with with the stance of Ubuntu, right? You come in with the stance, I see you I value, I welcome you. And I have all these great values. But I also have some leadership values that I have to do to help the team and help the organization move forward. Right. And so I just wanted to give you that context of it's even though we have had, we have a definition of value, and we have happy contributing people. It is also critical for us to have other structures and tools to help us get there. Any questions so far? I just wanted to just see where you are. I know we've been talking about value customers. And now I brought in Ubuntu and leadership. Any questions in terms of how we're tying all of this together? You know, we're making like a nice little, nice little quilt. So we're stitching it all together. So it comes comes down to something very nice. Any questions so far before I move on?


SUGSA Attendee  24:24

My chopper gave me an evening. My question is, what do you buy expecting? I'm seeing that we are talking about leadership, we are talking about culture, we are talking about wounding, but who divides pain? And who says we have been?


Dr. Dave  24:48

So who defines value? So there's I would say it's, it starts with leadership. Right? It starts there. And also because we're building this generative culture, right, because leaders are responsible, oftentimes for establishing culture in the organization, if you notice that, as the leaders of the organization goes, so is the attitude of the people that works there. Right? So I said, it starts there, but the people themselves, right, the people who are part of the teams that were part of the organization, they also contribute to culture, they're going to bring something that's totally different than than a leader because they're in the work every day. Right. And so as we're talking about these patterns, you structures want to I'm talking about this generative leadership values, you know, I'm talking about anyone could be a leader in the organization, because there's two different types of leaders. One is the assigned leader, I got assigned to be the vice president of something, then the second type of leader that I talk about is the Emergent Leader, the person who was willing to step in and take some risks, you know, be able to lead things without someone telling them to do so you have two different types, the emergent leaders tend to be a part of the team itself. You know, Was that helpful in clarifying or not answering your question?


Dr. Dave  26:27

I can hear you.


SUGSA Attendee  26:28

Oh, sorry. I just got the mic. I'm not sure if I would say that you would have answered it. So I understand that this the leadership and this the team has good. So I'm taking it typically from a project points. So let's just look at it probably iteration point, we have pushed something into production, we have deployed sample. Now, are we then assuming that since we have pushed something into production that is very on its own? Or are we then saying once the customer has actually worth what we have delivered to them? They can then say, Yes, this does tick the box in terms of what we expected, and therefore this is the value or No, it doesn't tick that box and therefore it is not even?


Dr. Dave  27:24

My answer is my answer is yes to that, right.


Dr. Dave  27:33

The reason I said my answer is yes to it is because, yes, there's value that you delivered something to the customer. And that's why we do Agile, why, because in a traditional project management and I used to teach project management, I used to be a project manager will take up to 18 months to deliver value something of value to the customers through production right. Now, as we've been doing Agile, in and then I've been doing this for for quite a bit of time, I'm not going to tell you how long, but for a long time, that being able to deliver value every two weeks and get feedback, it's really an important aspect because it helps me to make decisions in the organization, right? Like you look at point number seven, about running the experiment, every time you put something out to the customers, you are not sure you know that the customer is going to like what you put out, you know, they may not like the porridge that you have to offer that day, you know, so it's just an experiment. And so the only way you're gonna find out if it's good. The second part of your value is if they like it or not like it, right, which is the not like it is the third part of the definition of value, that there was no value in what you just produced. So in from an agile mindset, just put that hat on, we're talking about small iterations of delivering value every two weeks. Matter of fact, there's this company that I think give them too much money now called Amazon, that they run up to over 11,000 experiments every day.


SUGSA Attendee  29:09

So we have another question today.


SUGSA Attendee  29:19

Can you hear me? Yeah, I just want to weigh in to this. And maybe to respond to the question that she had raised to say, who deliver who defines the value and before we even look at this, those iteration goals when we deliver the value iteratively it starts way beyond it depends on organization organizations, as we will define the value right when we have our program increment planning in those three days or two days. That's when when we defining our week, we also sit with our pieces that hold us to say And what is the value that you want to see at the end of this? That's when we define value with our business stakeholders, thank you.


Dr. Dave  30:09

That's true when you're doing the scale agile framework safe. You know, when you do PII planning, you know, you have this thing called business value, right? I mean, that you, you define, I'm gonna find an article and send it to you that I wrote in forbes.com, about just that conversation itself, right, that conversation that you were talking about with your, your stakeholders and your epic owners. But I'll send you an article that I wrote in Forbes about, you know, the definition of value and business value as well. So it matter of fact, I'm going to spend just a maybe a few more minutes on this, and then we're going to move on. But even prior to coming to to Pei planning, right, there's a series of work that as the development team, often you don't get to see, right, and that's the design thinking design sprints context of where you're out there, whether you're a UX person, the user experience person, who are spending some energy and time talking to customers, right, running some experiments with them. They're also looking at what I call primary and secondary data, primary interviewing people, secondary is looking at what data is available, you know, through research. So even prior to coming to PII planning, or big room planning event, there are some definition of value that's taking place. And that's the benefit hypothesis is what we're talking about, that there's a benefit hypothesis, because after your customer gets it, like it or not, it becomes benefit realization, right? So you have benefit hypothesis very early, and benefit realization after you have delivered something to production. Right? And so did they connect my hypothesis $10 million, my benefit realization is 1 million, you know, there's, there's something that happening, right, and our hypothesis was incorrect. Or maybe it's too early, there could be lots of different reasons. So there are other people who are involved called product managers, and oftentimes, and also product owners, who will be partially responsible for that. Thank you for your amazing questions and engagement. We're gonna move on because I'm trying to manage time for the group. We could talk about the definition of value all day. So cool. The next thing is we talked about is satisfied customers, right? And customers, someone you've written, yeah, you know, customers is like people who repeat but people who buy, right. So when you have satisfied customers, their unmet needs are satisfied, right? I mean, they're eating that ice cream is like God, I love pistachio, you know, and so they're gonna come back. And if you have a great pistachio ice cream, they're gonna come back and buy that there, then that helps build up brand loyalty, right? I'm speaking to this from the product owner, but also from the development team perspective that you have to understand this. The third part of this thing, it's more of a marketing context called customer lifetime value. If you wonder why people want you to subscribe for a year, right? You got to you got to pay for something like a piece of software, and they said, Hey, I'm gonna give you 10%. If you sign up for one year, or 15%, if you sign up for one year, versus doing a subscription, month by month, this is what we call customer lifetime value. The reason why they want you to sign up for a year is such that they could have that money in the bank early, right. So if instead of them having to wait for you to make your payment in July, or August and September and October, November, they already have that money, which then you could start to make other type of decisions. In the process. I just wanted to give you that piece of information that you walk away from being like yeah, no definition of value, but also no customer lifetime value, which is a very important aspect. If you're when you're running a business, I'm a business owner. So I think about these things. So I also went out and had lots of conversations with the same you know, four people, right and so Donna Larson, she said, get closer to know the customer. That's when I'm when she's thinking about satisfied customers. Marty said customers getting value in a good way. Dave, people are wowed by the value received, which is the stuff that you put into production that you gave to the customer. And Howard is also when they receive value in excess of the amount they paid or the effort that they're looking forward to. Right that they provided. So we're gonna do a quick mentee again, asking the question, you know, what words come to mind? About a portrait portrait, you know, thinking a picture right? Of a satisfied customer. See if I have all these customers, I'm at a concert and they just love what we're sharing out. That's what we're talking about. Oops, get out here. So, let's let's look at, when we think about the satisfied customer, you know, give me some words, you know about the portrait of what that looks like. Because, you know, I mean, if you can start to envision what your customer looks like, it means that you're getting an idea of who they are. And that's through conversations that's through experimentation. All of those things, referral, you know, people sending, sending them in smiling, laughing customers. I mean, there's nothing like, you know, you go into your shop. And I'd say you go into your Dukkha if you have a dukkha, right, and there's people who are out there smiling and really telling others to come to your Dukkha to buy some goodness, right. And yet, it comes back for more. So tell us more about that comes back for more who wrote that? Go ahead and jump on it.


SUGSA Attendee  36:06

So basically, around the customers, you've got a person that technically consents, I bought a, from a confectionery and I actually love the cake and the quality of the cake is actually good. That means every time I've got extra cash or anything, I will definitely be going there to buy more thing, because I know that the quality will not disappoint me.


Dr. Dave  36:32

That's right. So whoever said wink, tell us more what a winking when when you got some good cake


Dr. Dave  36:46

let's hear from you when someone gave it give a winky and lovely cake


Dr. Dave  36:55

Don't be afraid. said when we said wink?


Dr. Dave  37:09

What? Tell me about the experience of the wink of a satisfied customer?


SUGSA Attendee  37:14

And what did you do?


SUGSA Attendee  37:25

Expect it Sorry.


Dr. Dave  37:33

All right. You know, I'm okay. If no one wants to talk about wink, we can move on because, you know, minding our business here. So, like the way we learn about our customers, and so not only I'm talking to you about definition of value, want to talk about leadership, you know, in a generative way. But I'm also talk bringing giving you different tools, different tools that you could use as you go through this journey. Right. So the way we learn about our customers, is by using this thing called empathy map. And this is if you're a product manager, product owner, you know, this is a wonderful tool that we use. That gives us the E wonderful perspective as to what's going on. Right. So we start off so there's eight different questions that happens, right, we said, you know, the very first thing we said was the person we want to understand, right? We want to keep these customers one, make sure they're happy, and they're winking and eating cake. You know, we want to know, what do they need to do differently? Right, you know, and so the third thing is like, what do they see in the market or in the environment that they're living in? And for what did they say, you know, so what did they hear? What did we as we're having this conversation with these happy countries? Are these satisfied customers, we hear them say, oh, that's cake was good, man. Give me another wink. You know, number five, you know, what do they do? You know, what behavior have we observed? Right? And so I'm just tying those two things together in our observation of our customers, the number six it says, you know, what do they hear what are they hearing others say about you, or us as the people making a wonderful cake? And then we said what do they think and feel right, their pains and gains, you know, what are the fears frustration and anxiety pain? Gains, what are their wants, hopes, needs and dreams? And then we also look at what are the thoughts and feelings might motivate their behaviors to come back and buy more cake. Right. And so that is, this is a tool that you could go back and use if you're a product owner, or even as a team that you're out doing a customer visit is a tool you could use but also you could also use this tool as a retrospective tool. And so think about this that you're working with a team. And what's really going on is that the stuff that they delivered to production did not provide the value that was expected. And so there's blame going on, right? There's always blame going on when we're building products and services. So there's blame going on. So during our retrospective, we could start to look at the team, we could start to look at, you know, members who are doing quality, we can start to look at the product owner. So who is the person we want to understand? Maybe it's the whole team, right? And then we go like, so what do we need to do differently to generate value for our customers? What is, you know, what do we see in a market or environment? You know, the leaders have got like, oh, that that stuff that is put into production was crap. You know, it didn't give us what we were looking for, you know, that was terrible, right? And you could start to see, as we're going through these eight different points, even though there's only seven labeled the bottom, what others, what other thoughts and feelings might motivate others becomes your eight point. But you can start going through these inquiry, these questions, to start to learn more about what's going on with that team. So you can use this as also for doing part of your retrospective activities. And it's very powerful, because we're going really deep, right, we're being empathetic, we're being compassionate, about what's really going on in our space. So really good tool to use any questions about the empathy map before I move on?


Dr. Dave  41:48

Don't be afraid?


SUGSA Attendee  41:52

I'll take? It's not a question. My name is Nilesh. So it's not a question. It's really a comment. I've seen that people use this empathy map. And they assume what you what is the person that we're trying to understand. And they make assumptions to all of these things, right? They say, what do they need to do? What do they need to do differently, and then we make assumptions about what they need. The idea behind this. And the reason it's called empathy is that it is about listening, it's about listening to the customer. And we have to be always wary of just making assumptions around the customer. And when we use tools like this, make sure it is with the customer and for the customer.


Dr. Dave  42:36

That was powerful. And so that's really good to really remember that this is about the customer and for the customer, and also for your team if you use it for retrospective, right? So it goes back to the concept of the hypothesis, a hypothesis is an assumption, we're assuming that what we're building is good, you know, and it's going to perform at a certain level. So thank you for bringing that that was really powerful. And so yes, use this directly with a customer. He can even if you did a hypothesis at first, right? I'm saying that some people have done this, and I've done this, you know, make a hypothesis about a customer. But then go and see, you know, the gimble walk, go and ask about the same questions and validate your assumption, your hypothesis about that customer as well. So there's two there two different ways to approach this. But it should never be done. To delish point, it should never be done just by your hypothesis alone, you need to go validate with the customer. Thank you so much for that delicious, that was really awesome. So we're gonna move on to the next concept of extra slide. thriving business, right. And so when I think of a private, a thriving business, I'm thinking about an organization that's practicing business agility. And I know people talk about that a lot in the Agile space. And I tend to have tried to have very succinct definition about things like business agility. And so I just lean into the lean, lean into the Lean definition of where you're actually optimizing the whole organization, and not just it. So one of the Lean principles is optimize the whole, right and don't sub optimize. So I'm barring from from that definition, that says, optimize the whole organization and not just it. Right. And we could expand upon that as much as we need to when we talk about business, agility, but thriving business, have happy contributing people, because that is what allows an organization to really grow and do great things is the people itself and then also having satisfied customers. And I want customers who are fans. And I want customers to keep coming back and said, You know what I am Dr. Dave he coached us, he trained us, he made our organization better. And when I get those letters, I am totally stoked. Because I know that I potentially have customers who are friends, you know, they're out there cheering my name and sharing the work that I've done. But again, this is my definition of what a thriving businesses but I went to industry leaders and ask them again, these professionals about their thriving business and Diana she says faster to market acquire new customers retain customers that we have important. I used to listen to my great grandmother would always tell me that a burden hand is better than two in the bushes. I'm gonna like, you know, the little kid, you know, you got a burden hand is better than two in the bush. Yeah, but what about the noun on the one hand, because I already have it. That's what we're talking about retaining customers and having happy contributing people and satisfied customers. A Marty talks about having market momentum, a good work environment and uses its resources wisely. So he's looking at the organization and the leadership, not only the assigned leadership, but the emergent leadership, the people who are part of the teams who are also, you know, contributing and building all of the goodness that your customers need. Same thing with Dave West, he says energy created between the three elements of customer team and market rate dynamics of how positive energy and using your empathy map as a way for conversations, then this is no why they exist, and who they who they're there to serve. And this is comes from the start with my start, start with why conversation right from that book, start with why this is where power is coming from in this context. So you can see that we have four different peoples who have been in the industry for a while. They're leaders, and they have different definitions. And I love it, I love it. I love the fact that I've been able to what we'll be calling in Risa triangulate by different definitions of different topics or themes to help us understand better what these things really mean and how they can be applied. But very important, right? The very important aspect of this is that I believe in also using tools like, you know, value streams, you know, that if we are going to have a thriving business, we need to organize people around value, right? And value streams is a you know, as I'm shown here, and I borrowed this from the safe world, that one of their illustration is that, you know, look, we want to be able to identify an increased flow, someone had flow before, right? We want to be able to build adaptive teams adapt this is lean, agile teams to deliver value frequently. Focus on continual improvement, right? We're getting better we're learning, we practice customer obsession, which is, you know, the satisfied customer. So can we begin to understand as a business or practicing business agility that we're organizing people around the value in the organization? Quick questions before I ask you more questions about mentee, I know I walked through a few big topics and thriving business. So anything that you have to add before I ask you to give me some response or mentee?


Dr. Dave  48:38

Okay, good. So we're going to go and we're gonna go into min T again. And this is the last I promise. Let's go in here and let you know, what comes to mind about thriving businesses for you, right, using the same mentee code, what comes to mind about a thriving business? You know, I could, you know, Amazon for one just comes to mind for me, because, like, I remember them starting out of selling online books, you know, and being an ex software engineer and architect used to order technical books from them. Alright, so that's a long time ago, but I'm just saying that, you know, that's what comes to mind to me about thriving business. Well, even Microsoft, you know, and it could be smaller businesses within your community, right? Yeah, yeah. Longevity. Hey, who said evolving with time let's hear from you. And I'm pulling you out of your space but who said that


Dr. Dave  49:52

wants to share, you know, their experience with you know, a thriving business that's evolving with the times


Dr. Dave  50:09

All right, and that's understandable that


SUGSA Attendee  50:14

somebody in my work has I'll say simplicity. Okay, you a point is very simple. Like I've seen examples, they are products that are better, or maybe complex and stuff, and somebody comes to something that maybe a bushel of pain is just really simple. And in fact, it becomes just as simple as possible.


Dr. Dave  50:43

I love that thank you,


SUGSA Attendee  50:45

for example, and just as the Schengen is young, but somehow all search engine managed to be there, they are one where the arrows are all adjustable. When you want to search, you just type in whatever that you're looking for.


Dr. Dave  51:09

Really good. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing. Maybe, okay, just, you know, the fact that, you know, we've incorporated the, you know, some of the goodness of satisfied clients in there, you know, happy employees that we have in there. You know, being able to thrive and sustain itself is a great portraits or break imagery of what this looks like. So, you know, as we continue, because we're almost at the end, I promise. In summary, you know, when I think what I want to tell you, right, is that value is a measurable outcome that can be realized I could measure it, it serves our customers, and each one of you have spoken about that. And we can it's realizable, something that can be done, right. And it's also shareable. Right? So if I could share things with different people, and get them to come back to my cake shop and wink and have fun. I mean, that is beautiful, I could measure that level of value. When we think about happy contributing people, they're foundational to healthy organization. Also looking at how do we focus on creating, you know, satisfied customers, you would hear those leaders of some of these, the most successful companies talk about customer obsession, is by knowing the unmet needs unmet needs of your customers, is really where it's going to differentiate you from your competition. And a thriving business enables happy contributing people and satisfied customers. So that's the summary of the conversation that we've been having today. So with that, you know, curiosity, you know, you know, what are you curious about today's learning?


Dr. Dave  53:15

Even the question of the curiosity of God, how do I use this? How do I influence my, my leaders in my organization to start leaning more this way?


SUGSA Attendee  53:33

I kind of joined the session today kind of new to the world of agile, so I'm here to be a sponge to get knowledge from others and how do they implement and apply? Good.


SUGSA Attendee  53:55

Say, the, whatever. The thing is that variables depend on, on which angle you're looking at. For a customer, it can be one thing to say like, and then for the team. Like if it can be from management, if the expectation of some championship and Villa can mean different things to different people. Yes.


SUGSA Attendee  54:29

So I'm just gonna piggyback on what he's just said. It really came from a perspective of a manager, the current team. How do you manage all of that because those are different personas. That's the main thing.



So my site is the campus snap to see how, you know, there's a lot of focus on the customer, but to see how one can use that for the team, and also motivated team to deliver more value obviously to the customer, but see how that can be incorporated to the team are not only just looking at it from their past, they can feel thanks.


SUGSA Attendee  55:37

You, I would say, for example, click customer, it will be a product that meets their expectation exactly what they want, right. But let's say from the team meeting, they look quickly, like, Fine, you deliver on your what, one sprint goals, but also, the team is motivated in there a couple of other things that we should add to you, besides just a product, like what it's like you make sure that people are dependent upon the ABC, the team, the cultures, right, and all that type of thing. Like, yeah, that's how I would define it to say, for example, in terms of management, maybe management also expects this to take, if I were giving you your Yep, let's say, within this year, at least, we need to be able to hit this in the direction that we will be compatible. So for the for the management point of view, it will be to say like, are we going in the direction that we want to go?


SUGSA Attendee  56:57

With holding


SUGSA Attendee  56:58

it forever


SUGSA Attendee  57:10

I think, to your point this week, and align those things, it's super important to think about, because also think about who matters when you think about value, that's awesome, not today. So you can align what the customer wants, with what the business needs, and what is important to the team. And thinking about how to align those things. So the business wants to stay profitable, and to you know, carry on, and the customer wants awesome features or whatever product that they can use easily. And the team might care about learning and growth and development. So how can we grow while we deliver? What are the, you know, there's ways to align those three things? And I think it's a great question to ask that who matters and what does it mean to them, and then figuring out how to align it is part of what today was also saying, which is very awesome.


Dr. Dave  58:20

Well, good. I mean, I'm glad that this has created some curiosity for you, for you to go forward and learn more. And really, you know, the last comment about alignment, right? I mean, between these different personas and these different people who have different interest, you know, there's work to be done. And that's what I love about agility you have in at its simplest form, you have three different roles, right? You have the scrum master, who deals with wood, making sure the teams are aligned with the scrum values and habits and practices. And you have the product owner who is responsible for, you know, making sure that the product delivers some values and interactions with the customers and you have the development team, the people who are actually building stuff, and each one of those roles are leaders, I just want to make sure we point that out that those are opportunities for leadership. And then you have all the other stakeholders, right the people with the assign roles in the organization. So yeah, deliver value is the thing is everyone will want to say this, right? Right, is that it's like beauty in the eyes of the beholder, right, each person will have a different definition. And the power is bringing alignment between those different views to make sure that we all see value from the same context. And with that, I'm going to do some some pitching to tell you like you know, I have some wonderful books out there. You could get them all on Amazon if you choose to and then there's My Dr. Dave dukkha, you know, you could bite to eat some of the ebooks are out there. I forgot to tell you that I have a podcast. It's called. And you could find it on Spotify, Audible, Apple, Google et Cie, let's see X, et cetera, Spotify, right. So, you know, if you want to listen to some of the stuff that, you know, I'm writing about, I'm talking about, you could go out and check out you know, my podcasts. And if you get the knowledge share that or what you put in the chat earlier, you can see some of the things that I'm writing about, you know, the blogs and the thoughts that I'm putting out into the world. So you know, I'm totally excited to be here today. You know, crazy thank you for inviting me and for, for the universe, allowing this to align that I could be here and be a part of this community as well. So thank you so much for that


Kayana Singing  1:01:13

we all have some thing to share. KnolShare with Dr. Dave.