EAFH65: Dr. Dave Presents Do You Deliver Value at Agile Nova

Kayana Singing  00:07

We all have something to share. KnolShare with Dr. Dave


Salah  00:21

All right, welcome, everybody. Welcome to Agile Nova. It's been a while since we have since we had an event. And I'm really delighted to be back and to host.


Salah  00:35

I believe this will be the first event in 2023. So


Salah  00:40

we'll come back, and I am happy to have Dr. Dave Cornelius with us today. And the topic about value. He always brings, you know, value to the conversation. So, welcome. Thank you.


Dr. Dave  00:59

Well, if you're ready for me, and since we have such a small group,


Dr. Dave  01:04

I'm going to post something in the chat, just for everyone to just check in, you know, since you guys haven't,


Dr. Dave  01:13

haven't been here for a while. And so this is just using one of the core protocols, you know, Activities called a check in. And so, you know, I would love to hear your voice, you know, in a learning space today. And so why don't we just start and anyone could start, I'm not going to select, then we'll just go through that, go through this thing. And I'll be the last person since I'm the speaker, and I could just get started from there.


Jerry  01:44

Hey, this is Jerry stone. I'm from New Jersey. I saw this meet up and Dr. Dave, I have attended some of your other meetups in the past. So when I saw it, I'm like, Oh, I remember him. Let me go to this one. So looking forward to your presentation.


Jerry  02:07

What is it? I'm sorry, I am in. Alright, so I could say welcome.


Mark  02:21

I'll go My name is Mark Hepler.


Mark  02:23



Mark  02:25

came here today, I'm a coach. And I've been talking to people about adding value. So I thought I might be able to get some good tips for those conversations, and questioning how I can best add value. So hopefully I will


Mark  02:42

be able to take something away from myself as well. And I am in


Agile Nova  02:47



Corinne  02:51

I'll go next. My name is Corinne and I came today because there's been a lot of discussion around delivery of value and just value in general. So I thought it would be a good opportunity to get a different perspective and learn a little bit more and then hopefully share with the program that I'm supporting. So with that I N Welcome, welcome.


Christie  03:17

Hey, I'm Christie. Glad to be here. Looks like a really great topic. Always great to learn more about value. And I am in


Agile Nova  03:26

Welcome, welcome.


Katherine  03:29

Hey, I'm Katherine. I am in and I'm joining because they want yeah, it's just continuous learning, always trying to improve. I'm located in Charlotte. I used to live in DC a little while ago. So I used to attend all those meetings. Looking forward to this. And I'm so sorry, I need to drop off early to catch a flight in a bit.


Agile Nova  03:53

Welcome, welcome. Welcome.


Betsy  03:57

My name is Betsy. And I'm here because I have a client that I've been working with for over two years. And we cannot figure out how to convince their overall organization. That value is what their IT department should be delivering. So hoping you have some new tricks and techniques for me. And I'm in


Agile Nova  04:18



Salah  04:21

All right, go. My name is Salah and


Agile Nova  04:48



Dr. Dave  04:59

wrote a book about it.


Dr. Dave  05:00

So that's what we're going to talk about tonight. So I'm in,


Agile Nova  05:06



Dr. Dave  05:36

And so the trigger for this what generated the whole concept and I know heard Mark says, you know, it's just asking the question, do I deliver value, what does value really means? But you know, when we're in the space of having that discussion about delivering value, and so I've written two books, recently, one of them is called deliver value, obviously. And


Dr. Dave  06:00

you could find that at Amazon. And then within that book, I started, I wrote a fiction story to really talk about value in the context of happy contributing people, satisfied customers and thriving business. And so I pulled that out. And now I have this other small little book called Innovation catalysts leading with empathy. And it's really an emphasis on women leadership, and how a woman in leadership can deliver value with technology and using agile and a bunch of other different techniques to make sure the organization brings value to its its customers, to the people who work there, as well as the shareholders and stakeholders in the process. And so instead of just depending on my own understanding, I decided to have a conversation with a bunch of industry leaders. And so one of the first leaders that I I spoke to was Merriam Webster, you guys don't marry him, right? Yeah, it's well known has been around since 1823. well established. And so conversation would marry them. And it's there's a fair return or equivalent in good services or money for something exchanged. And one definition. And so I also talked to Diana Larsen, you guys know who Donna Lawson is? She wrote, you know, agile retrospectives. Yeah. And she said, Well, I think there are different types kinds of values that are that are customer business and strategic direction. That's her context. And then, you know, Betsy, said she was in Portland. So Marty Nelson runs a code camp up in Portland. And he says that positive exchange positive emotion and experience. And so I went off and talk to Dave West. And he is the CEO of scrum.org. And he said, you may ask, why is the person buying that thing? What is the value they want to receive in the process? And then Howard sublet, who is the former CEO of Scrum Alliance, he says, the relationship between your mouth someone pays and what they perceive that they get in exchange. So you could see five different brains, five different thoughts about what value is. And then here comes me, you know, Dr. Dave, who says, Well, I think there should be a definition of value, I think there should be a thing called definition of value, just like there's distribution already. And right definition of Done. So let's have a definition of value. And so my definition of value is


Dr. Dave  08:38

that value is a measurable outcome that can be realized and shared.


Dr. Dave  08:43

And I describe this this way, is because as I'm doing research, and I wanted to have something a full definition that I could play with us as an instrument, so I can say value is measurable. So I could figure out how to measure it what is quantitative or qualitative, I can say value is outcomes focused, which is more customer centric. Because when we speak to outcomes, we're talking about something that we're delivering value to a customer. I go a little further and I say value is realizable. So it shouldn't be something that's so abstract that we can even tap into it. And and so I said value is shareable because we live in a time


Dr. Dave  09:27

where we have networks and we're constantly sharing information. So value is a measurable outcome that can be realized and shared. Now, you've heard my definition, you've heard five other definitions. And so I'm going to ask you, and so we're going to play with mentee for a little while. So I'm going to bring this question up and then I'll bring a mentee screen up and you guys could share that information. And so I said, how do you how do you know your delivered value and I want


Dr. Dave  10:00

need to think about it from the context of words that comes to mind when you or your team itself actually delivered value. And so let me drop the mentee content in here that I want you to use. And


Dr. Dave  10:19

put that into chat. And everyone was going to be happy about that. And so


Dr. Dave  10:27

Okay, so that's there in mentee. And let me bring up and run my mentee code here, and I'm gonna present


Dr. Dave  10:35

and and so you could answer, you could give up to three different responses in the process.


Dr. Dave  10:42

You know what words come to mind when you or your team delivered value, so go to menti.com, and you can enter the code 4247362 to


Dr. Dave  10:55

see about three people are in there. So I'm gonna close that. And I am going to give us about a minute so that we could stay on track.


Dr. Dave  11:06

Maybe it'd be kind and give us a minute and a half. What do you guys think? I think you're,


Dr. Dave  11:12

if you think too hard, then you know, you probably won't have much fun with this. So I want to make sure that


Dr. Dave  11:24



Dr. Dave  11:27

So you could add multiple definitions. And that's your choice to do so.


Dr. Dave  11:43

It seems that we have profit, people


Dr. Dave  11:47

have used the ability strategic outcome. People are thinking about profit, again.


Dr. Dave  11:54

Things that are defined by by the business itself.


Dr. Dave  11:59

utility that people get utility out of that


Dr. Dave  12:04

it's a solution.


Dr. Dave  12:12

bankable plan?


Dr. Dave  12:28

So let's see what else user experience.


Dr. Dave  12:32

See what else is fun in here?


Dr. Dave  12:36

Accomplished? Yes.


Dr. Dave  12:39



Dr. Dave  12:41

So whoever wrote bankable plan, tell us a little bit more about bankable plan. When What do you mean by that?


Agile Nova  12:55

Sorry, you caught me while I'm munching on my dinner.


Agile Nova  13:05

I work in financial services. So anything that is bankable, that is going to be a positive outcome where we're going to


Agile Nova  13:13

generate additional monetary value to what the bank, that's the we call it considered as a bankable plan. And that adds value to the company and to the


Agile Nova  13:26

to the risk group.


Dr. Dave  13:29



Agile Nova  13:32

Let's see. Let me see for good strategic outcome. Such strategic outcome. Let's hear from you. That's me. I


Agile Nova  13:42

thought I said that one. Oh, well.


Agile Nova  13:45

Okay, both of us, then please go ahead. Oh, that's funny. Yeah. I mean, to me,


Dr. Dave  13:51

it's just what the business is trying to accomplish. And there's different ways whether it's technical,


Dr. Dave  13:57

or, you know, for the end user, it's, it's something strategic, like it's planned, and it has a particular game.


Dr. Dave  14:05

Okay, fair, that those are, you know, those are very good, you know, definitions that we could use. And so with that, I am going to jump back over to get out of this screen for now.


Dr. Dave  14:21

And jump back into our presentation.


Dr. Dave  14:26

So yeah, as you can see, we have different definitions, different perspective of what value is So value. You know, if I gave you a conceptual framework, that value was a measurable outcome that can be realized and shared, and you look at the definition, then I could plop plug different things into that definition, right. I could plug how I'm gonna measure it. I could plug a vision about what that looks like. I could plug in, you know, what's realizable, unwatched, shareable and how I'm going to share it? Right? And so that gives us a


Dr. Dave  15:00

conceptual framework, the definition of value that I provided, give you a conceptual framework that you could take forward and used as you could plug it. Now, when we think about the relevance of delivering value, right, I mean, what we're talking about as customers are loyal and satisfied by customers have wants and needs. And so they're, you're actually satisfying their needs. You know, we have happy contributing people, the people who actually work for the organization, have a sense of happiness, which is a sense of belonging, and for what they're, what they're contributing to the organization. So if you notice, I didn't just say happy people. I said, Happy contributing people. There's a big difference. Oh, wow, it's so fun. Yeah, that's cool. Hey, what have you done for me lately, you know, do the Janet Jackson, Jackson song, and dance. So it also that it helps the organization's to be viable and thriving, at the same time, they're making money, they're expanding their business, your influence is good to have a good reputation. And, you know, when you deliver value, you know, really, it feels good. It really does mean, I don't know, if anyone who was delivered value in the context of building software, building products and services,


Dr. Dave  16:21

who do not get that feeling of, Wow, this was really cool. You know, and sometimes we call those people, you know, high performing teams, or resilient teams. So we have different phrases that we could use, but those individuals also or teams, also deliver great value to the organization.


Dr. Dave  16:41



Dr. Dave  16:42

when in our conversation today, as we walk forward, we'll talk about three different things. Three,


Dr. Dave  16:51

we're going to talk about happy contributing people and who they are, and some attributes of happy contributing people, we'll talk about satisfied customers. And the third aspect of it is thriving business. I believe, as a business owner, and someone who has coached many in large companies, these are the three pillars that help organizations to really thrive,


Dr. Dave  17:17

and really provide value to their shareholders to their customers. And so all of these three things are really important, right? In terms of delivering value, and these organ, these different groups also get great benefits from it.


Dr. Dave  17:33

So so when you think about happy contributing people, their attributes is that, you know, some of this may jump out at you, oh, Daniel Pink that comes to mind, right? You have, they have a purpose, right? There's some, they're compassionate, in terms of how they deal with each other, their master certain capabilities of becoming better. And then they're self organizing, or self managing, they have the ability to get things done. And so I think these four elements are really critical to help to have happy contributing people, you know, in the process. And so the other question that I have for you tonight, is that, if this is the case, if this is a case that has happy contributing, people have a purpose, they're compassionate.


Dr. Dave  18:24

They have their master capabilities, and then they're self organizing.


Dr. Dave  18:29

Let me ask you this question.


Dr. Dave  18:32

You know, what am I contributing people look like to you? Right, so this is an event with with two individuals from Israel, we're planning to sa planning out some work. And you can see to have fun hats on. And they're going to contribute some value this day in planning. So I'm going to do another man T and ask you what words come to mind.


Dr. Dave  18:55

You know, about happy contributing people when you have that experience, and then we'll tell you a little bit more. So let me bring up my my second slide and get into presentation mode. You know, if you notice, this is fun, I kept one mentee, same code, all you have to do is go to the next question, which is here and just share some words when you when you think about happy contributing people, you know, what comes to mind, you know, for you, and I'm going to do about a minute you know, and we have a small group so that gives you enough time to


Dr. Dave  19:31

type some stuff in here about happy contributing people and help us to see what your experience has been.


Dr. Dave  19:41

laughter So good.


Dr. Dave  19:55

Participation Yes.


Dr. Dave  20:07

such an amazing thing when flow happens in your organization in your relationship, and the work that you're doing.


Dr. Dave  20:28

Just having that feeling of being fulfilled also is essential for happy contributing people.


Dr. Dave  20:42

Okay, I'm gonna pick on the person. Tell us more about laughter, you know, and what that experience is like, yeah, what happy contributing people?


Agile Nova  20:52

Sure, and anyone else can add. So we have a team working internally


Agile Nova  20:59

on business development, actually, for our company, and we laugh a lot. You know, we're discovering what best ways how best to do the follow ups, how best to hold meetings, and all that good stuff. But we laugh a lot. And so that, that definitely came to mind.


Dr. Dave  21:16

Hmm, what about flow?


Agile Nova  21:23

Yeah, I added that.


Agile Nova  21:26

I think, yeah, I think I have to have been contributing, people get a chance to be in the zone, because they're trying to solve problems they're trying to help others.


Agile Nova  21:39

And, you know, being in the zone can create happiness and happiness can create, you know, being in the zone. So it's sort of like a virtuous cycle.


Dr. Dave  21:51

Nice. So one more, how about engaged, you know, there's this thing that unengaged people cost like about $450 billion in productivity cost? annually. So,


Dr. Dave  22:04

to me, that's important.


Agile Nova  22:10

So I think that was me.


Agile Nova  22:13

So yeah, I mean, you you see it in the room, right? There are people who are engaged, and they want to be actively participating.


Agile Nova  22:24

You know, they just show up different than people who are just kind of, you know, just showing up.


Dr. Dave  22:30

Certainly is, you know, thank you so much for your contribution. Let me move over to the next one, what's going to come up, oops.


Dr. Dave  22:42

So you can see, we have different contexts and, and different perspective of what happy contributing people are, and how they show up, you know, and how we experience them. But there's another context that I would like to describe of how we could create a space


Dr. Dave  23:04

to enable happy contributing people. And so there's this concept called Ubuntu. And if you're a technical person, maybe you're going to think about, you know, some type of a server because there's actually a server software called a boon to, but this is an African term. And, you know, there's a term in Africa that says that this is saying this, that if you want to go fast, go alone,


Dr. Dave  23:31

if you want to go far go together. And that's a team mindset. So the concept of Ubuntu says, I am because we are as a collective. And my translation for Ubuntu is that I see you, you know, I value you, and I welcome you. All right. And so if we could start practicing those things, about building happy contributing people, this is one way of how we start to help to create value for others for ourselves for the organization. And so, as we start in that stance of Ubuntu, then we can talk talking about a boon two values.


Dr. Dave  24:14

The first one I talked about is patience and kindness. And that's really important in the translation of patience, and kindness is really love. Love is patient. Love is kind, right? That's a translation of what that is patience and kindness. It's all about love is not an emotional thing, but it's how I could accept the shortcomings of others and myself and I can be kind to myself and kind to others.


Dr. Dave  24:40

We could create safety for the people that we're working with. Everyone talks about psychological safety, but also let's talk about physical safety as well.


Dr. Dave  24:51

about resilience of being able to not just go Oh, woe is me. Oh, I got up, but it's having the ability to work.


Dr. Dave  25:00

work as a collective group of people who could provide value back to the organization. And then also just partnership. In a, I want to have lots of partnerships with different individuals who have we use the word, someone added accountability, right. So we have accountability to each other as we're getting things done. So this is one, this is one way that I want to show up when we're talking about


Dr. Dave  25:28

creating happy contributing people, I want to come in with a sense of Ubuntu. And when it comes show up with a status that I see you, I value you, I welcome you. And to support that here's a set of values that I want to wear, you know, daily in my womb two stents.


Dr. Dave  25:49

No, that's the way we, you know, in our system in our space show up. Now, I want to talk about


Dr. Dave  25:59

leadership, or leadership that help us move forward with this happy contributing people paradigm and this context.


Dr. Dave  26:10

I looked at Ron Wistrom he had a series of definitions about generative culture. Well, as the cool leaders create culture, they're responsible for that. And so I'm looking at generative leadership of how we could build these great performance based organization that are resilient. And yeah, this is a little wordy. But I think it was necessary for this slide to be a little bit wordy, because there's lots of information to provide. So Ron Westrom came up with about, you know, six different values that sits on the left, that is, you know, teams that are performance based or high, has high cooperation. So I said, the translation of high cooperation is that is a focus on we, right.


Dr. Dave  26:10



Dr. Dave  27:04

We're working well, together, we're getting things done. The second thing is that he talked about messengers are enabled, right, they're enabled to do their jobs. So I said, Hey, we trust you to achieve our goals. You know, we have some goals, some things that we want to get done. So we trust you to get that done. And so as we're we're talking about happy contributing people of self organization, you can see they're starting to tie back into some of those core principles of what happy contributing people are. And we said risk are shared. So we're going to win and lose the team. That's going to happen. One, Team One dream beautiful. And four, we talking about bridging, bridging, you know, that we're it's incurred. So we're gonna have partnership and have conversations to learn more. So instead of that friction that you have with security, and if you have a pm group, and you have that group, well, we're going to do some bridging so that we could have partnership and have conversations of how do we learn more to move forward? And then in five, you know, people talk about failures lead to inquiry. So I'm gonna say, what did we learn? What did we just learn in the Agile space, we want to say learn fast? Right, is one of the things that we talk about. So this is this is the inquiry that we want to learn more about? What did we learn in our process? So what we just failed? Cool. So what did we learn in the process? Well, we were just successful. What did we learn? Six is novelty implemented. So I said, one of the things that when I'm coaching, and I'm speaking, I talk about running the experiment and evaluate the hypothesis, because most of the things that we come up with, you're building a new product or service, you know, there's a high probability that, you know, you really don't know what the answer is, on the other side, you have a hypothesis and needs to be evaluated. And we need to get some validated learning, so that we understand if we were successful or not, right, so we're going to try some stuff in this language. And then I picked up seven and talked in terms of having met a growth mindset, but an abundance mindset. That's what I want to have. I want to have an abundance mindset that not only do I have the capacity to share with others, but I also have the capacity to learn. So I'm going really big when I think of abundance, right? And when I think about these seven generative leadership values, is the things that I want leaders to adapt. So when I run my leadership course with leaders, these are the seven values that I want them to to lean into. Focus on we let me show you how to do that. Let me show you how to trust. Let me show you how to build teams. Let's have relations conversation about you know, how do we build better partnership and learning things through inquiry and being curious, unless running some small limited experiment? These are all agile mindset.


Dr. Dave  30:00

To type things that I'm speaking of, and I think most of us who are here may have had some experience with doing that. Okay, so any questions around


Dr. Dave  30:11

the journey we just took about talking about


Dr. Dave  30:15

happy contributing people?


Dr. Dave  30:20

Or comments?


Agile Nova  30:26

I do have a question, I had to step out for a second, I wanted to,


Agile Nova  30:32

when you say win and lose as a team?


Agile Nova  30:36

How do you? I mean, how do you see that? And how do you define team?


Dr. Dave  30:43

Let's say that we have


Dr. Dave  30:47

an assigned group of


Dr. Dave  30:50

just use the Agile world 4 to 9 people, right. And so it could be,


Dr. Dave  30:57

it could be a cross functional team. So if you're doing that, you know, simply don't say if you may go up to a lab. And so you have a cross functional team. So so that's your team, some people may come be members of the business organization, some people may be from your IT organization, you have UX people. So the winning and losing is within the construct of those people who are participating to deliver value. That's what I'm talking about.


Agile Nova  31:26

So one of the things that I I'm sure we all say, right, and in a sufficiently large organization, you're dependent upon other teams, right? There are no truly independent teams, right? And so you inevitably get into those us versus them, right? Like, Oh, we did our part, you know, let so like, at a higher level, like the larger team, right? Is where I find it harder to get the win and lose as a team mentality.


Dr. Dave  31:53

So yeah, I can see that. So then we may go on to point number four, value number four, where we have bridging encouraged.


Dr. Dave  32:03

Right, so that it's like, Okay, fine. We did a we did we did our part, and you're struggling. So let's partner, let's have a conversation so we can learn more, how can we help you? I mean, is that okay? To me, if we're winning and losing as a team, one team and teams working as a collective to deliver value? Can we do that? So even though we have these generative leadership values, even though they're listed out of seven things, they could work in conjunction with each other? I mean, generally, values work best when you can start combining them. So we can have, you know, a better outcome or more comprehensive outcome.


Agile Nova  32:46

Okay, next, yeah, like I like the the tie back into into number four. All right.


Dr. Dave  32:54

Anything else before we move on to satisfied customers?


Jerry  32:58

Hey, it's Jerry, question on numbers six, excluding one of the Elan Elan companies, how do you see this happening? And companies I work in financial services? And we were always risk aware? And, you know, we don't run experiments. So, you know, I'd be curious on how that works in other companies?


Dr. Dave  33:22

Well, it depends on the company. Right? So Amazon, does, they do this all the time? Right, 1000s of times per day.


Dr. Dave  33:32



Dr. Dave  33:34

I just came from


Dr. Dave  33:36

a big financial company, that that's, that's part of the automotive industry. And some of the conversations that I've had with those individuals. And some of the, the success that we've had is this, Hey, is it okay for us to just take a small slice of what we're trying to do and run this experiment to see what we learned? We may not go all the way out to production with it. But can we learn something in the group as opposed to we don't know how this works? Right? So that's one way you could run the experiment, if you work for if you're in an organization that is willing to pick a small group of people. All right, any, you know, and said, We're gonna go ahead and work with alpha or beta users? I mean, that's the experiment to evaluate your hypothesis. You know, what will customers even like this? Would they even want to use this system?


Dr. Dave  34:37

Right, and this gets into, you know, lean startup buying as well. Right, a running small amount of work as opposed to spending nine months or 18 months hypothesizing about something that's going to work? Can we do this in maybe, you know, six to 10 weeks and try something like that, and see what the outcomes are. See what would work better



Determine the validated learnings are by running the hypothesis. So each organization is going to vary, and some organizations will be open to this.


Agile Nova  35:12

All right, thank you.


Dr. Dave  35:13

You're welcome


Dr. Dave  35:16

so I'm going to


Dr. Dave  35:18

move on to the next thing.


Dr. Dave  35:22



Dr. Dave  35:24

The second group of individuals that we care about, right we are people are happy and, and they're having a good time. They're mastering capabilities. Right? I mean, they're, they're practicing Ubuntu, the leadership is doing that they're leaning into this gal, you know, set of values. Now, we're talking about satisfied customers. And satisfied customers are really simple. Not really. So I'm gonna say that if we have their unmet need unmet needs satisfied,


Dr. Dave  35:55

you're gonna have satisfied customers.


Dr. Dave  35:59

If we understand what their needs are, they're going to be satisfied and we could deliver value.


Dr. Dave  36:04

We're going to have satisfied customers in the context that


Dr. Dave  36:09

we were beginning as an organization to experience brand loyalty.


Dr. Dave  36:15

You know, my brand loyalty, and I'll give you an example. And sometimes I'll go like dawn. I've never thought I was wanting to spend so much money with Amazon. But you know, COVID made it legit such that they made it so convenient, convenient for so many things. There's brand loyalty, there will be I'm just, just be honest about that.


Dr. Dave  36:35

The third aspect of this, and this is more of a sales marketing, business development context of customer lifetime value. Do you notice every time you go and buy a subscription, they give you the option to do one month? Or one year?


Dr. Dave  36:54

Do you know why they give you the one year option?


Dr. Dave  36:59

Any thoughts?


Agile Nova  37:02

Because you forget when renewal time comes up?


Dr. Dave  37:08

That's the unintended consequences, right.


Dr. Dave  37:11

But why do you think that customers offering that option at that reduced rate?


Agile Nova  37:18

I guess it has to do with, you know the return on investment for their acquisition costs?


Dr. Dave  37:26

Yeah, that's part of it. But it's money in the bank. You remember you talking about someone was talking about bank something option, it's money in the bank, if I could get you to pay for 12 months in advance, right? I have that money, I don't have to worry about every month charging you. I don't have to worry about additional fees and expenses and stuff like that I have that money in the bank. And that's what we're talking about customer lifetime value.


Dr. Dave  37:57

Right, so that I had that customer for 12 months.


Dr. Dave  38:02

You know, so it's a sales marketing business development tool that people use to make sure that companies could have the money and satisfied customers to do that I do it. And I'm sort of like worrying about every month, I just Oh, yeah, sure. You're gonna give me 1210 15%? Whatever it is. Yeah, I'll take it.


Dr. Dave  38:23

Right. So there's a benefit to the organization for doing that.


Dr. Dave  38:29

All right. So let's keep tracking about satisfied customers. So again, I went off to my trusty group of leaders, who I think have a fair amount of experience and knowledge. And I asked him the same question.


Dr. Dave  38:44

You know, what do you think about satisfied customer, and Dinesh is gonna say get closer to know the customer. She didn't define what a satisfied customer is. She says, here's an action to take. To learn more about satisfied customer.


Dr. Dave  38:59

Marty says he's like customers getting value in a good way. And Dave, is that people are wild by the value received. And then Howard says one day we see value in excess of the amount they paid for the effort they provided. So that's their definition


Dr. Dave  39:15

of what a satisfied customer is.


Dr. Dave  39:20



Dr. Dave  39:21

now, so I'm going to ask you the same question. We're going to go back and, you know, we're going to spend time going back and forth, because I want your input. And you could, based on what everyone else, what those these four leaders said, you know, you could push against their definition or you could come up with your own definition. So


Dr. Dave  39:42

let me hop out of here and go on to my new


Dr. Dave  39:50

menti slide and I ask you the same thing what words come to mind about a portrait of satisfied customers? I want a portrait of satisfied customers.


Dr. Dave  40:00

Little bit different little bit more interesting of what a satisfied customer look like. And I'm gonna, you know, I think you guys are getting the hang of this. So I'm going to make it 45 seconds, that you could give me some some feedback as to what your thoughts are


Dr. Dave  40:31



Dr. Dave  40:35

there's nothing like having a customer who was delighted by the value that you just provided for them


Dr. Dave  40:48

or you just gave empower those individuals to be able to serve themselves without having to call someone to take an action


Dr. Dave  41:07



Dr. Dave  41:12

So who said living their best life?


Dr. Dave  41:15

I did. Let's hear from you.


Agile Nova  41:18

I was just thinking about when I'm satisfied. And I feel like this those things that empower me to be more of who I am like my own profile, my own portrait, I'm, I just feel kick ass. So


Dr. Dave  41:32

I dig it.


Dr. Dave  41:34

I totally dig in. And then it is a group of people that says, you know, this, this whole level of appreciation, they're appreciative of the value that we're providing for them who said that.


Dr. Dave  41:47

Or there could be number a number of people who said that I was one of them.


Agile Nova  41:53

And I think in this case, too, I'm also thinking about, like, users that you interact with even more so than, you know, internal people, as opposed to external customers. And they just, they're so glad that they've finally been understood.


Jerry  42:09

And what about referrals, the Net Promoter Score, kind of like a metric referrals. It's Jerry, and I put that down, I think about myself, when I'm happy with the product and service I received, I make it a point to share that with others. So the company's getting me as a free sales agent, if you will.


Dr. Dave  42:32

Nice. Well, good. Thank you. Thank you for giving context to what you've contributed and shared. And so we'll continue to have discussions about, you know, tools that we could learn more about our customers. So, you know, I know some of you so we wanted to know what value really means. And I hope as we're going through this journey, we talk about a definition of value that you guys can lean into. And then we could push against three different views of happy contributing people, if you have happy contributing people delivering value within the organization, because shouldn't organization producing good stuff, there's a high probability that they could contribute to the wonderful thing of satisfied customers, right in terms of how they speak to them. But one way to learn about more learn more about your customers, is that there's this tool called the empathy map. And it's a design thinking, we use it a lot in design thinking, right? And we say, Well, who do we want to empathize? What do we want to imagine that we're walking in their shoes? Or if I can't imagine what it's like to walk in their shoes, maybe I could go ask him what it's like to walk in their shoes. Well, maybe go observe what it's like to walk in their shoes. Right? And that comes back to the concept of gamba. Walk go and see. All right. So you could figure out like, what do we want? Number one, who do we want to empathize with? Who is our customers? Who are the people that we really care about? People who are inside our walls and outside of our walls? are number two, you know, what do they need to do?


Dr. Dave  44:18

Right, what are the things that they they really need to get done? The Clayton Christensen came up with this concept of jobs to be done. And this whole concept of jobs to be done is that, you know, every customer has a job that he needs to get done. If you don't have food in your house and you're hungry, the job that needs to be done is to go get food from some source, whether it's fast food or a restaurant, that's the job feeding, making sure that your hunger is satisfied. You know, what do they need to see


Dr. Dave  44:51

in terms of your product? You know, is is it ecstatically clean? Is it pleasing? Is it a junk pile?


Dr. Dave  45:00

You know, you know, what did they say about your products?


Dr. Dave  45:03

What are you saying to other people?


Dr. Dave  45:08

Also, you know, they may think about what do they need to do with your product? You know, how is their product going to help them in their journey? You know, what are they hearing?


Dr. Dave  45:20

In the space? They're in? What are they hearing on the news on the Internet?


Dr. Dave  45:25

You know, Jerry just said, you know, he is one of those individuals who's loyal, and he's going to tell other people, what is Jerry saying to other people about your products and services? And then you get into number seven? And you're trying to figure out what did they think? And feel? What are the pains that they're experiencing with your product and services? Or without your product and services? And then also, what are the gains? What are the things they're gonna get from it? Right, and even whether they have it, or they imagine that you're going to get some, you know, wonderful values or gains from that product. And then


Dr. Dave  46:01

you know, what other thoughts and feelings might motivate the behaviors of the person that you're empathizing with, or your customers. So this tool, I use it for, you know, the design thinking, thinking aspect of when we're trying to learn more about our customers, internal or external.


Dr. Dave  46:22

But I also use it as a fun tool for retrospectives.


Dr. Dave  46:28

And, you know, if we just had a really, really, really tough time or as a brand new team, this is another great tool, you could just use as a retrospective tool to start empathizing. And you could prop ask all sorts of fun questions with each one of these points, right, so that you need about 90 minutes to do this well, and really come up with things that you really want to work on. What are your thoughts so far about the empathy map? Or oh, or,


Dr. Dave  46:56

you know, how does this really appeal to you in any way or form?


Agile Nova  47:09

Think it's, it's you want to be in their conversation. And so this is really helpful to bridge that gap.


Dr. Dave  47:17

Like it, I think it's a good way for everybody to have a shared understanding to have of, you know, either the customer or


Agile Nova  47:28

Yeah, so that it's done on paper, and that everybody is coming at it from the same perspective when they are having conversations.


Agile Nova  47:38

I like the idea of using it as a retro tool.


Agile Nova  47:43

But that's, that's an interesting application, I can see a lot of ways of using within the organization.


Agile Nova  47:51

And you remember, Mark, you were talking about multiple teams? Exactly. Yeah. Exactly.


Dr. Dave  47:58

Any other thoughts? Before we move along?


Agile Nova  48:01

I need a little more fleshing out of how it would be used as a retro tool. I like the idea, but it's not landing for me how I would actually do that. Is it with a specific feature? Our I just if anyone has any thoughts, otherwise, I can just chew on it on my own.


Dr. Dave  48:18

Well, let me let me go to the crowd before I respond. Anyone have any thoughts on how you would want to use this as a retro tool?


Agile Nova  48:27

Actually had similar questions that how to use it for that show. So Thanks, Christy, for bringing that up. I was thinking it would be like,


Agile Nova  48:36

asking the team to,


Agile Nova  48:39

like think or, or act like they are the customer? And to try to, to see how the group does the group agree? What the, how the customer would answer these things.


Agile Nova  48:55

I think it could also be used like internally within the team, right? Maybe there was a problem this this sprint, right, maybe something didn't go right. And we're trying to find out why.


Agile Nova  49:05

You know, I'll use the obvious example, there wasn't enough time for testing and the testers got pinched at the end of the sprint and, and the great delivery went out with bugs in it, are you Right, right. So you know, trying to empathize. Maybe it's testers empathizing with other people, as well as other people at the site, and empathizing with testers. Right. So just even within the team, I would think you find a good question. I think you could use this for that.


Dr. Dave  49:35

Yeah, Was that helpful?


Agile Nova  49:38

Thank you. Yeah, that was great. Excellent, excellent. I was gonna use a similar metaphor. But Mark, thank you for doing that. That was really helpful. You know, that we're all just leaning into this. So now we're going to shift so the first part we talked about definition of value. We talked about happy contributing people were just


Dr. Dave  50:00

finished up satisfied customers. Now, the last part of this is thriving business.


Dr. Dave  50:07

Right? So one thing when I think about thriving businesses that they they practice business agility. And my definition of business agility is, it comes from lean. So it's like I'm thinking about optimizing the whole organization as much as possible. That's my definition of business agility. I mean, there are many other definitions in my book deliver value. You know, I speak about it from a SAFe perspective, I speak about it from the Business Agility.


Dr. Dave  50:39

I Opened that sentence wrong Academy perspective, I speak about it from another group that has a definition of what their thing business agility is. But for me, I like simple. So optimizing the whole, it's more appropriate for me than just optimizing it, because that's what we do when we practice agility. So I said, the organization has practice and business agility, and then within a thriving business, have happy, happy contributing people, right, and they're thriving within within that organization. And then we have these satisfied customers who are fans who are constantly coming back to loyal, they're buying stuff.


Dr. Dave  51:20

And so this is the the fourth aspect. To me, when we start talking about deliver value, we understand what value the definition is, or we could use it, we understand our people are really like happy and contributing, we understand our customers are satisfied. And then well, yeah, you know, we're making money, you know, we're flexible, we're dealing with all the shifts that's coming at us, you know, we're dealing in a VUCA world, and people doing great and our customers are, are just loving us to death. And so the same thing, asking these individuals and, and so these are just extracts from the interviews that have had these individuals in the book itself, you know, so Diana, she goes faster to market acquire new customers and retain customers that we have


Dr. Dave  52:07

point of contact here CLV retain customers that we have Marty have, have market momentum, a good working environment and uses its resources wisely.


Dr. Dave  52:19

Dave talks about energy created between three elements of customers team and market. And then Howard talks about know why they exist, and who they're there to serve. And so this is really a context from start with why Simon Sinek point of view.


Dr. Dave  52:41

I like to think also, a helpful tool for organizations is to leverage and, and just come look at this comes from the Six Sigma world, right? The Lean Six, sigma, Six Sigma world, and we use it, we're beginning to use it more now, in that we're starting to get people to organize around value. And one of the tools that we may use as a value stream,


Dr. Dave  53:09

right and value streams are, they're really visual representation of how a specific portion of the organization actually operates. So you may have many of these, as your walk through, you know, if you're looking at a loan in the flow, you know, for for a loan, we're looking at the people that are involved actions that are involved, some of the systems that are involved from the time, there's a request until it's done, right. So I'm saying that we want to use this tool to identify and increase flow in the organization. And this isn't complete, because there's two other pieces that's missing from here. One event is what we call Muda. The waste of time that we have in here, and the other part of it is value, right? So this isn't a that isn't included in the chart. But I just wanted to give you, you know, a visual of what a value stream would look like. Now, as part of the organization who's happy contributing people, we're building these adaptive teams so we could deliver things faster. Alright, we're focusing on the value portion of this and really trying to eliminate as many as much waste as possible. So we could have an increased flow efficiency. We're focused on continual improvement, and we're going to become more customer obsessed than anything else. We care about our customers what do we have to do to make sure that you know our customer are satisfied and we know what their unmet needs are? Any questions about this picture of a value stream and and what it represents?


Dr. Dave  55:02



Dr. Dave  55:04

You guys are great students. You've seen this before. Love it. So of course, I'm going to ask you,


Dr. Dave  55:13



Dr. Dave  55:15

you know what words come to mind about thriving businesses


Dr. Dave  55:20

feel. And so we'll do a final


Dr. Dave  55:27

menti inquiry here using the same code. And let's just think about some words and we'll do another 45 seconds of time.


Dr. Dave  55:36

And you can share what that is


Dr. Dave  56:07

leading edge love that


Dr. Dave  56:11

hopefully leading edge using AI


Dr. Dave  56:18

satisfied customers I'm glad that satisfied customers in there because that's important.


Dr. Dave  56:28

Right? So who said leading edge? What was that about?


Agile Nova  56:34

Yeah, it was me again. I, I just I mean, if I really go there, I mean, I came to mind, they're thriving businesses that aren't doing anything out of the ordinary. But, you know, if I were to be really part of a thriving business, like in an ideal sense that we would have a leading edge. Okay.


Dr. Dave  56:55

So let's go what, what satisfied customers?


Agile Nova  57:04

I put that one again, because I it's just really been on my mind watching like listening?


Dr. Dave  57:11

Well, you know, it's one of the key markers that we're talking about, what about engaged in community?


Agile Nova  57:20

I put that and I think,


Agile Nova  57:22

and maybe something an outcome of that is also thriving in sharing that with the community and also helping build a community and support that. So that was something that I think would be important, if I were Ito in a business that was thriving.


Dr. Dave  57:40

I mean, I would want that. And so that also is part of the story of that book, you know, the innovation catalysts leading with empathy that is part of that story, that fictional story of that female leader, who was actually engaging the community, right to talk about innovation, as part of a give back. And also to make sure they could tap into minds that are may have ideas that can give back to their company. So thank you for pointing that out. That's important to me, I believe in community and engaging communities. Um, anything else that you would like to discuss briefly before we move on to the next slide?


Agile Nova  58:30

I just I really liked that engaged in community is there. And, you know, I just wonder, Is that always been the case for thriving businesses historically, and it's just something I'm chewing on. I just love that it's there.


Dr. Dave  58:48

I could think of some research where that's the case. But I would like to hear from someone else.


Agile Nova  58:54

Yeah, I don't know. Like, I'm not an expert, or not an expert by any means. But I know that I think like historically.


Agile Nova  59:05

You know, maybe back in the 50s, or 60s, I think it was a big part as far as getting engaged with the communities, but maybe not as much today are it's widespread today. But once again, like I don't have a lot of research to back that up other than some podcasts that I've listened to.


Agile Nova  59:22

Cool, thanks. That's so it's interesting, because I was actually thinking the opposite that back in the day, I don't know that companies were involved today. It seems like everybody's involved in helping up their communities. Like if you look online, how many times do you see team pictures from various companies wearing their team shirts, you know, doing something locally for people so I don't know I think of it differently.


Dr. Dave  59:46

Think both is fair, that that


Dr. Dave  59:54

there's more now but, you know, there were also businesses that really contributed to


Dr. Dave  59:59

to the community and pat in the past, so


Dr. Dave  1:00:05

you know, forgot, I'm like spacing and Jim Collins book from good to great. And he had another book b uilt to last yeah built to last that's built to last is the one that that you would see some conversation about engagement and communities.


Dr. Dave  1:00:22

And how that was one of the the activities that they did they engaged in to make sure that their communities became stronger. So cool. Yeah, thank you for reminding me about built to last,


Dr. Dave  1:00:40

you know, read a lot.


Dr. Dave  1:00:44

So, let me just summarize, right, for what we just covered, and staying within our time box, you know, values of measurable outcome that can be realized and shared. And, you know,


Dr. Dave  1:00:58

the word realize, too, and I forgot to tell you this, that when I when I think of Maslow's pyramid,


Dr. Dave  1:01:07

right? On top of it, you know, what is the word that sits on top of his pyramid?


Agile Nova  1:01:16

Is it self realization, yes, self realization, wow, when you gave me a clue, boom, like it. So that's where that is coming from, as well, that not only is achievable, but there's some


Dr. Dave  1:01:31

realization, actualization that's taking place, you know, for the individual. So it's kind of a look a little bit of a loaded term, but but that's what I'm talking about, as well, in there.


Dr. Dave  1:01:43

We think about happy contributing people that they're really foundational to building his healthy organization, so that it could continue to get to a place of thriving, we're focused on creating satisfied customers, and just knowing the unmet needs. You know, this is why startup companies Excel, because they understand the unmet needs of the customers, this is why stable customers continues to excel, because they understand the unmet needs of their customers. And so, to bring this all together, we're saying that a thriving business enables happy contributing people and satisfied customers.


Dr. Dave  1:02:25

So that's the view when I think about delivering value. You know, it's not, it's not just a one thing that we do, is as an organization, as a system, we're approaching this from the people that are building stuff, the people who are paying for stuff and receiving value, and the actual entity itself, that's thriving, you know, because of those other things that are taking place. And we have a definition of value. So, you know,


Dr. Dave  1:02:56

I've been in companies where, you know, it takes them a whole year to understand how to define value or define p roducts, and I'm gonna like, Okay, you're driving me crazy. Let's go talk to Marian. This has been around for a long time. Oh, he's been around for a long time. And we can we can get some answers there. And we could start there. And we could probably ideate, you know, through the process. So with that, you know, what are you curious about today's learning?


Agile Nova  1:03:32

I guess it's just so simple, but it seems like there's so many components to it. And organizations are big, complex systems. And it's, you know, it's not like I have it wrapped around my finger, or I feel like I could, I could walk in any organization and address address their value or their measurable stuff. So I guess, I'm just curious why it's so simple, but so complex?


Dr. Dave  1:03:58

Well, I'll, I'll take it to the team, to the group who's here.


Agile Nova  1:04:04

Yeah, I agree with that. And a lot of these concepts seems so straightforward. You wonder why we just can't do it. You made a comment earlier in the call. Leadership is responsible for culture. And an offside I made the comment that our culture is not that good, and we need to fix it. Not thinking that I was making a comment to the leadership team. But you know,


Agile Nova  1:04:30

that's a statement that seems like we should be able to do that. But we just can't for some reason. So.


Agile Nova  1:04:39

And it also reminds me, sorry, I'll just say real quick, like, it's something that we should learn like, in elementary school, right? I think these values like Ubuntu. Like if we had this in our culture to begin with, it'd be a lot easier to have it in our businesses.


Agile Nova  1:04:58

And the thing that I was going to say no


Agile Nova  1:05:00

I think Dave, you mentioned this earlier, it was optimizing for the hole. And it's hard to, to spread the knowledge or even if it does seem like a simple concept and spreading it across an organization and then the interpretation of it, I think there's a lot that, can you even if it is a simple concept get lost in translation.


Agile Nova  1:05:30

I'll second the perception or the idea that it's, it's a fairly easy concept to understand, but really hard to, I guess, communicate and put into practice and to realize it's there. So yeah, there's been a lot of questions lately, around even like, just general agility and coaching, right to like, what, tell us show us how you add value. Right? What, what metric can we use? What can we import or point to so there's been a, I've been hearing that a lot more over the last couple of years. So this, this sheds a little bit of light on that I think.


Dr. Dave  1:06:26

Well, know, if


Dr. Dave  1:06:30

I'm glad that this has brought some value, no pun intended,


Dr. Dave  1:06:36

to this group. And so


Dr. Dave  1:06:40

yeah, you know, if you, if you buy the book, you read the book, it has different types of metrics that you can use for different things, for measuring what value looks like in terms of engagement, and happiness, and a bunch of other stuff like that. So you can find that, that in there.


Dr. Dave  1:07:01

Just to share with you, you know, just some other, you know, you know, I'm a business executive organization, Agile coach, and trainer. So I'm out there coaching and training people. And


Dr. Dave  1:07:14

in I've written several books, a few of them,


Dr. Dave  1:07:18

that talks about different things. And the last three that I did between 2002 and 2003, is the innovation catalyst leading with empathy, which is an which is also embedded in deliver value. But I figured it would be an easier read for someone to read a 50 page fiction story about a great female who is, you know, leading an organization, and then deliver value is really a 300 page book that has all of the fun stuff in it.


Dr. Dave  1:07:51

belonging and healing is where I go really deep into Ubuntu, and really talk about, you know, how do we create belonging and healing in our organization, because I think that's a big gap that we have. And it's just, you know, something that I think that's really important. So you could find my books on Amazon, I also sell the ebooks on my website called DrDaveDuka.com.


Dr. Dave  1:08:18

And I'll tell you a quick story. Before I go, you know, there was I was


Dr. Dave  1:08:24



Dr. Dave  1:08:25

a festival, a book festival here in Tucson, Arizona, at the University of Arizona, and this woman from Africa, she comes where's the Duka. And so a Duka is what happens in other countries is that you would have your home and your duka, the store itself would happen right outside of your house as part of your house. So that's what a Duka is. And so I thought it was pretty hilarious that she came in, I was looking for the Duka as it here's the Duka, our tent is the Duka. So that's what I have for you today. Thank you.


Salah  1:08:59

All right. Thank you, Dr. Dave. I really liked the definition of value. I'm gonna I'm gonna take that


Salah  1:09:08

and start to share it with others. But thank you for your insights. Thanks for the wisdom. And yeah, I'm I'm glad we were able to come back to the meetup and make this happen. Hopefully we can start to plan the next, the next set of events and, you know, get back together in person at some point.


Salah  1:09:34

Any final comments from anyone? Anyone? Before we go?


Agile Nova  1:09:41

Great presentation. Thank you. It was fun. Really great. Connecting with everyone. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for the presentation solid. Thanks for getting us all together.


Salah  1:09:52

All right, thank you. Check out Dr. Dave.


Salah  1:09:58

Place the


Salah  1:09:59

Look, I think you said DrDaveDuka.com. The DrDaveDuka. And yeah, looking forward to see you again next time. Nice. All right. Have a good night. All right, everyone, thank you. Bye bye


Kayana Singing  1:10:21

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